Should one be vegan even in lucid dreams?

[Yogger]

Hi guys

I am vegan and recently I had quite strange lucid dream with this subject.

For those who are not familiar with lucid dreaming I will explain it shortly.
Lucid dream is kind of dream where you are fully aware of the fact that you are dreaming and so you can act consciously.
In fact your body lies in bed, sleeping but your mind is inside dream world, consciously interacting with dream environment.
Normally people when dreaming thinks that what they experiencing is reality. In lucid dream they know that it is only a dream.
More on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucid_dream

So in my lucid dream I was in kitchen with my wife and kids (they are not vegans) and my wife was serving yoghurt to kids.
I said to myself that because it is only a dream I can take one as well. I took it, it was very tasty and I really enjoyed it.
But after maybe fifth spoon I realized that even though that yoghurt exists only in my head, I am failing to be what I want to be.
I am failing to be vegan. So I stopped eating it and continued in my lucid dream.

Now I am still wondering whether I had overreacted or not.

Of course technically I am still vegan and I will be even if I will eat meat, milk and eggs in every lucid dream in future.
On the other hand It seems to me that when eating yoghurt in lucid dream, I was somehow accepting whole concept
of dairy industry and so it is not something that I want to do in the future.

What do you guys think? Would you eat non-vegan food in your lucid dream?

[EquALLity]

For those who are not familiar with lucid dreaming I will explain it shortly.
Lucid dream is kind of dream where you are fully aware of the fact that you are dreaming and so you can act consciously.
In fact your body lies in bed, sleeping but your mind is inside dream world, consciously interacting with dream environment.
Normally people when dreaming thinks that what they experiencing is reality. In lucid dream they now that it is only a dream.
More on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucid_dream

Recently I tried to wake myself up from a lucid dream and it took like 10 false awakenings.

"Hm, have I woken up?"
*tries to breathe through nose while holding it*
"Shit!"
*cycle repeats ten times*

I wrote down some of my lucid dreams not too long ago, and kept them in a document, but now I can't remember the password... Ugh.
I remember though, that the last time I read it over, I didn't remember something happening that I wrote down at all.
Even when trying to remember it, I couldn't! So bizarre.

Anyway...
Why would it be an issue to do that? o_O
Do you think there is some other point to veganism besides real-life consequences?

[Yogger]

I wrote down some of my lucid dreams not too long ago, and kept them in a document, but now I can't remember the password... Ugh.
I remember though, that the last time I read it over, I didn't remember something happening that I wrote down at all.
Even when trying to remember it, I couldn't! So bizarre.

Yeah dreams are usually bizarre. Thats why I like them
Personally I prefer classical paper dream journal. Its more personal and I also read that people that use paper journals have better dream recall.

Do you think there is some other point to veganism besides real-life consequences?

No, I dont. But in that dream I felt hypocritically.

Its similar as if I would love to kill other people and then I decided to stop it, but consciously and passionately keep continuing with this hobby in my lucid dreams. Could I said then that I have distinguished right from wrong and changed my behaviour? Technically yes. Mentally not. Thats my point.

[EquALLity]

Yeah dreams are usually bizarre. Thats why I like them

Tell me about it! Another time I was trying to wake myself up, and I woke, but was so tired that I fell right back asleep again, and in my dream woke up in my bed. So there was this cycle of trying hard to wake up, waking up, and then almost immediately falling back asleep again.

And then sometimes there's sleep paralysis after an interruption when I try to go back to sleep, and sometimes it actually seems like it hurts.
But sometimes that doesn't happen, so maybe it's just in my head...

Apparently some people see 'demons' during sleep paralysis, and that stuff. o_O
Really bizarre.

Ever yell out to your dreams?
I saw online that someone told his/her dream to show something funny, and I decided to mimic the idea. I think a guy appeared in my driveway with some bizarre instrument thing. Similar results to the other person's, which makes sense.

Maybe there should be a topic about dreams. Like, 'What's Your Most Bizarre Dream?' or something. I'll do that later.

No, I dont. But in that dream I felt hypocritically.

Its similar as if I would love to kill other people and then I decided to stop it, but consciously and passionately keep continuing with this hobby in my lucid dreams. Could I said then that I have distinguished right from wrong and changed my behaviour? Technically yes. Mentally not. Thats my point.

I think you can fantasize about doing something while understanding that it would be wrong to actually do it.

I think what you're saying is like saying that people who play video games where they kill people don't fully understand that murder is (generally) wrong.

[Yogger]

I think you can fantasize about doing something while understanding that it would be wrong to actually do it.

Of course. Question is what impact it will have on your psychology and future behaviour.

I think what you're saying is like saying that people who play video games where they kill people don't fully understand that murder is (generally) wrong.

If we are talking about somebody who killed real person in his/her past and enjoyed it and now is playing these video games for very same kind of joy than yes, that is exactly what I am trying to say.

And then sometimes there's sleep paralysis

I never experienced that, but I heard a lot about that.

Ever yell out to your dreams?

No but sometimes I am saying to dream characters that they are not real and I really enjoy their reactions. Some times they ignore me, other times are angry or trying to convince me that they are real

[brimstoneSalad]

Welcome! You should post an intro, if you're so inclined.

Of course. Question is what impact it will have on your psychology and future behaviour.

Bingo. And that is an empirical question more than a philosophical one. So, unfortunately I can't answer it. We'd have to fall back on studies.

Do violent video games increase recidivism for people who have committed violent crimes? I don't know. This is a rather pressing open question; particularly where it concerns pedophilia and simulated porn. Does it help or hurt?

I could say, however, that if there's even the chance of it hurting (and if there's no chance of it helping, like to kill cravings if you were having them), it would be taking an unethical gamble for pleasure.


On another note: Why isn't your family vegan? Are you worried it would not be healthy to feed children vegan?

[Yogger]

Bingo. And that is an empirical question more than a philosophical one. So, unfortunately I can't answer it. We'd have to fall back on studies.

I agree.

Obviously I used bad example. I just wanted to say that when consuming dairy product in lucid dream I felt that I was somehow accepting
the idea or concept of animal exploitations. Simply because the yoghurt was abstract representation of real life sufferings. Thats it.

On the other hand dreams and lucid ones especially are very flexible. One can in his lucid dream f.e. construct some special type of maschine that
artificaly create non vegan food that is free of the concept of suffering ant yet taste exactly the same
But even in this case your mind would be using memories of real life non-vegen food. Still It would be slightly better solution I guess.

Would you eat non-vegan food in your lucid dream?

On another note: Why isn't your family vegan? Are you worried it would not be healthy to feed children vegan?

I am not worried about their health. But my wife doesnt want to switch to vegan diet because she is affraid of reaction of wider family and friends in case we would server only vegean food to our kids. In her case taste and habbit is in game as well.
She also says that if she and kids would switch to vegan diet, she will be forced to defend this position in front of other people ahd she claims that she is not able to do that. She thinks it would be very stressfull for her to do it all the time.

On the other hand my kids and wife eat far less non-vegan food than what is normal in Czech Republic. She is starting to like more and more vegan recepies and I hope her position will change in time.

[brimstoneSalad]

I just wanted to say that when consuming dairy product in lucid dream I felt that I was somehow accepting
the idea or concept of animal exploitations. Simply because the yoghurt was abstract representation of real life sufferings.

I know what you mean. And I think that concept may be more dangerous in a dream than, say, in a waking video game, because to a certain extent dreams (even lucid ones) may affect you more subconsciously since some of your critical thinking may still be shut down. That's highly speculative, though. I don't know if there's enough research on lucid dreams to compare the states.

I wouldn't do it. But I might eat some really delicious almond icecream in the dream. Or, more likely, just stop lucid dreaming. I feel like the guy in memento when I have lucid dreams, because I always fall back into normal dreams after a few seconds and forget I knew I was dreaming.

But my wife doesnt want to switch to vegan diet because she is affraid of reaction of wider family and friends in case we would server only vegean food to our kids.

I'm sorry to hear that. It seems like the father should have some say in what the kids consume. If she wanted them to smoke cigarettes, would you be expects to stand aside and abide by her on that? It seems very unjust.

Anyway, if that's the reason, could they at least switch just to eating oysters or some probably non-sentient animal like that, instead of the ones that cause a lot of animal suffering? That could eliminate the criticisms your wife is afraid of, but reduce animal suffering. And also, less damaging to their long-term health than other animal products.

The things parents teach their children to eat in childhood will affect them their entire lives. Non-vegan products would establish a bad habit and sense of normalcy, like giving a kid cigarettes. I hope it can be changed before they get too old and resist the change.

Good luck!

[Yogger]

I think that concept may be more dangerous in a dream than, say, in a waking video game, because to a certain extent dreams (even lucid ones) may affect you more subconsciously since some of your critical thinking may still be shut down.

Psychologists says that lucid dreaming is place where unconsciousness meets consciousness. So it seems to me as rather a good way how to say to your unconsciousness what you want and what you don't want to eat. But I understand that this approach is limited by one's relationship to this phenomena.

I wouldn't do it. But I might eat some really delicious almond icecream in the dream.

Yeah good point, I try to do that next time

Or, more likely, just stop lucid dreaming. I feel like the guy in memento when I have lucid dreams, because I always fall back into normal dreams after a few seconds and forget I knew I was dreaming.

With practice you can extent your time in lucid dream. My personal lucid dream are usually more stable and more meaningful than normal dreams.

It seems like the father should have some say in what the kids consume. If she wanted them to smoke cigarettes, would you be expects to stand aside and abide by her on that?

Eating meat three times per week is not comparable to smoking cigarettes. Before I went vegan 1,5 year ago we both ate meet and dairy every day so I fell that I already made some important impact on our common menu.

Anyway, if that's the reason, could they at least switch just to eating oysters or some probably non-sentient animal like that, instead of the ones that cause a lot of animal suffering?

My kids(1y and 3y) eat non-vegan food like yoghurts, fish and chickens. I can hardly imagine that I will give them oysters instead. Its more likely that I will start with plant based "dairy like" products and more legumes.

The things parents teach their children to eat in childhood will affect them their entire lives.

You're absolutely right. I'll start with buying plant based yoghurts. ) And I'll start tomorrow. Thanks for kicking me

[miniboes]

I just fail to have a lucid dream at all. Or to notice my dreams in the first place. I tried all the tricks in the book, but I just "won't" dream