deadeye68 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:21 pm
brimstone- More assumptions of what my daughter thinks.
Again, not assuming anything.
deadeye68 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:21 pmJust because she is vegan doesn't mean she has the exact same thoughts as you towards non vegans or on veganism in general.
No, the fact that she's interested in full time activism and has stopped talking to you so quickly
suggests that her feelings are stronger than mine or most vegans in general. This is not an assumption, it's a statement of empirical probability based on induction from other cases and what we know of human psychology. She is serious about this, and you don't get that. It has nothing to do with "20 years" raising your daughter; that's immaterial to the facts at hand.
People change. You're ignoring the evidence here.
Maybe your faith based position happens to be right here and it really is just about the green beans (which if it is, makes her seem unreasonable), or whatever you think it's about, and she really doesn't want you to go vegan or listen to and agree with her arguments, but that's not likely.
deadeye68 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:21 pmYour posts come off somewhat patronizing towards me.
That's not what patronizing means. I'm making no pretenses of humoring your delusions.
You are biased: you want to believe one thing, but it goes against the available evidence. I know you do not want to believe that your daughter has changed in her core beliefs, OR that you may have been doing something wrong.
What multiple vegans here have now said is that your dismissive attitude may be part of the problem.
We have one example of resolving that improving a relationship (Lay Vegan), and one case where a failure to resolve that caused problems in a relationship.
Then we have EquALLity's case, which is a bit different.
There's no way to know exactly what your daughter is feeling, but it would be wise to consider the possibility that one of these things is the issue.
deadeye68 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:21 pmI have no negative or positive views on veganism.
I know, you've said so, and I've even been quoting you.
That's probably the problem (from my perspective); you don't care at all about something your daughter cares about deeply and is trying to share her views on with you.
You don't even care enough to form an opinion on it. That's incredibly disrespectful and patronizing.
deadeye68 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:21 pmI respect her choice and I understand why she would choose to become vegan.
Why would she choose to become vegan?
You talked earlier about her being very sensitive; again, you have a very patronizing perspective on this.
Do you think all of her reasons are entirely irrational and emotional? That they have no merit whatsoever?
Even people who do not go vegan can look positively on the change, and admire it. Much like we might admire somebody who goes to a developing country to do humanitarian work even if we do not do it.
You are capable of viewing veganism positively and being happy she went vegan and being proud of her for doing it. You choose dismissive, patronizing, indifference instead.
Do I know 100% that this is the problem your daughter has? No. But it is a very strong possibility, and if not the entire problem is probably a large part of it.
We know that resolving this issue helps repair and improve other relationships, but you're ignoring that information. You're not even willing to try.
deadeye68 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:21 pmDon't assume to know anything about my relationship with her when I've only given you a sliver of 20 years of raising my child. She isn't the type to want me to join her in her newfound ideals. But ok you have your presumptions about me and my daughter thats fine I guess.
Even though they are incorrect. Have a good day.
See, there goes that closed mindedness again. You just know I'm wrong without even considering the possibility that you've been coming across as patronizing, and may have inadvertently done the same to her.
PEOPLE CHANGE. You said you hunted with her as a child. She is probably not the same person now as she was. And if she is seriously interested in full time activism, she DOES want to change the world, she wants the world to go vegan and for hunting and animal agriculture to end, and she would like if you'd stop doing those things too. She would not have complained about you being a
carnist if she didn't want you to change your ways. People who are only personally vegan and who are indifferent to others going vegan do not behave in these ways.
You even said this in the first post (now you're contradicting yourself):
deadeye68 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:08 amBut only in the last 5 or 6 months has she shown dissent towards us for not following suit into her changes.
She probably wants the world to go vegan, and that includes her family. Particularly, her family, whom she loves. You're making the assumption that she isn't the type to want you to join her in her newfound ideals, and therefore this couldn't be it, but this goes against every other case I've ever seen for serious activists. Serious vegan activists are not generally moral nihilists with a "to each his or her own" attitude who don't care what others do; they're trying to influence others, that's what activism is. What do you think vegan activism consists of?
I don't think you have to change your diet to repair your relationship with your daughter, but if you don't change your attitude it's less likely that you'll improve the relationship any time soon. You'll have to gamble on her giving up or getting jaded, and some activists are life-long.
If you're willing to take that risk, perhaps up to a 30% chance of losing your daughter (maybe permanently) due to your behavior, then maybe you don't care as much about the relationship as I had assumed -- that's an assumption I did make, that you'd be willing to be open minded that you may have done something wrong if it means better odds at fixing the damage. I was wrong. Good luck with your gamble.