Upcoming UV video on Freeganism!! (via responding to Edwins Generation)

Discussion and support on vegan related issues and questions, philosophy, activism, food, and science based nutrition.
Meat eater vs. Vegan debate welcome, but please keep it within debate topics.
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NonZeroSum
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Upcoming UV video on Freeganism!! (via responding to Edwins Generation)

Post by NonZeroSum » Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:57 pm

______

Have asked whether they plan to reference the wiki, but have started to see it getting linked around the place already anyway, so if anyone wants to give me a hand improving the article that would be aces:

http://philosophicalvegan.com/wiki/index.php/Freeganism

Video library on freeeganism:
https://activistjourneys.wordpress.com/freeganism

Forum discussion on Vegan Gains video; "How Much Food Can You Find In A Dumpster?"
http://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&p=32437

My comments to UV:

______

Heya, opportunity to back a smaller channel up on their rational freeganism:

I'm Vegan, But I'll Eat Meat
https://youtu.be/KKjBlW4yaxg

Chance to clarify what the popular use of the term freeganism is today, mostly referring to supermarket dumpster divers right, but whole raft of urban fruit gathering, edible gardening to advertising items online you were going to throw away anyway in a house clearance for free.

Here's my comment to him:
I understand the hesitation with the term freegan being historically rooted in a squatting, shoplifting subculture, I just want to let you know it's taken on a different much broader use since then to mean anything from urban gardening, foraging, freecycling, gleaning and talking to food sellers and restaurants to arrange a time to pick up their left over food that can't be sold. It doesn't have to replace veganism as a term you call yourself, it's just like saying I'm doing something freegan today as freegan is a portmanteau of free + vegan, you can also think of your practice as freegan-lite :)

There's a lot of great charities that are trying to help change the production and distribution chain so that farmers don't have to waste crops, supermarkets change their shelving practices and householders food lasts longer. Many activists I know mapping streets for urban apple trees, organizing street kitchens with wonky veg pulled from farmers fields and sharing fermenting recipes l know call their actions part of a vegan-freegan movement so I wouldn't feel any shame in using the term freegan :)

Here's some links:

Unnatural Vegan's Food Waste & Freeganism (Part 2: What is a freegan and why does it matter?)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzH6UEOz2Bs

Freegan encyclopedia
http://philosophicalvegan.com/wiki/index.php/Freeganism

Freegan discussion where we respond to Vegan Gains dumpster diving video and tell our experiences
http://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3315
----

Update; doesn't plan to do any more vegan videos for a while because of the toxicity of the comments, and semi-convinced did something wrong within veganism :/ https://youtu.be/L65_MEtq6J8


_____


Heya don’t know if you thought about making another freegan video since interest will be peaked after Vegan Gains kind of bungled an attempt to introduce it to people. You said after your last one you would like to hear more stories from freegans, a few of us are talking about our experiences on the forum thread below:

How Much Food Can You Find In A Dumpster? (Vegan Gains)
http://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&p=32437

And you can ask me any questions you like, I’m building a wiki advice page on it also, so would like to break down the research on health risk and campaign projects that see it as a vital resource like ‘Food not Bombs’ and ‘Hugh’s War on Waste’:

Freeganism (wiki)
http://philosophicalvegan.com/wiki/index.php/Freeganism

Maybe you could even do one on the zero waste lifestyle as it connects to minimalism and one on freeganism as it connects to abundance.

—————
Impact: (from Wikipedia)

Media coverage of freeganism in the United States peaked around the financial crisis in 2007-2009 and dropped off subsequently. More recently, freeganism has been discussed in the context of increasing public interest in food waste. Tristram Stuart, a prominent food waste campaigner and founder of the organization “Feedback” claims that media attention to freeganism was crucial in attracting attention to the problem. Other analyses of the origins of contemporary public policy initiatives around food waste have also concluded that freeganism contributed to new initiatives, like the French law on food waste or the U.S. food waste reduction challenge.

Youtube

Also if you just search freegan on youtube there are some great channels discussing all kinds like taking family on dives to the dog and cat food, vitamins, etc, that can be found:

Denmark’s Food Waste Vigilante – BBC News
https://youtu.be/KlFNp88T2cA

War On Waste: Dumpster Diving Granny
https://youtu.be/YllfZblk8iE

Police Arrest 7 People For Serving Food To The Homeless In Public Park
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ml-xSF4O8b8

5 Days Of Freeganism From Dumpster Diving To Clothing Swaps | Try Living With Lucie | Refinery29
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-AKVleMNDE

Vitamin dive
https://youtu.be/rPaMkFD6Lkw

Cat food dives:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQJJZrj1A2M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRlRjGKDAfg

Dog food and toys dives:
https://youtu.be/aUXXgaV_aYA?t=49s
https://youtu.be/Zv2clMXOf-U

——————-

Some criticism to be had on all sides:

Naturalistic Fallacy:

The Ultimate Guide to Dumpster Diving By Assya Barrette / Greenhighfive

Assaya: When it comes to dumpster food, you need to throw away many of your assumptions on food and food freshness that you’ve gotten used too. Remember, our caveman ancestors had nothing but their senses to distinguish between good and bad food. We can still apply them to determining edible dumpster food today.

Bearing vs Vegan Gains:

Yea Bearing is wrong because his fundamental objection is ‘Eww,’ not a good argument, but Vegan Gains is also wrong for not doing a good job and as I predicted triggering a bunch more people than necessary. But if the standard is just being willing to make a video documenting this then A star I guess, like him wanting to film his grandad’s death, it draws people to the channel who have never herd of veganism in a really negative way, but how many he manages to convert after that is unclear.
  • So yea Richard was told the dates wrong on some bread by his mate, and neglected to check it for himself.
  • They could have all worn better protection gear.
  • They shouldn’t have said all the best stuff is at the bottom, it’s not, the best stuff is in double wrapped plastic bags at the top.
  • Rich shouldn’t have exclaimed ‘ooo (unpackaged) apples!’
  • They shouldn’t have shown that other guy picking unpackaged greens out of one bin.
  • He could have not brought it directly back into his kitchen without leaving it submerged in water to kill aerobic bacteria then re-packaging.
  • They could have made a video about a bigger haul, as it was their time and effort cancelled out a good nights sleep and someone making money at a good job the next day.
  • They should have mentioned to search for any recently recalled food items.
  • They should have also advocated for all the lesser intermediary actions people mentioned in the comments, recorded them talking to people at food markets and small shops asking them to put aside the food in clean bags at the end of the day to pick up at a designated time.
From the Bearing response video:

Radiation Network wrote: “. . .each item that was tossed was deemed unfit for human consumption on a case by case decision.”

Not even close to being true, Radiation Network makes it sound like the staff are hygiene experts studiously going from shelf to shelf with high tech equipment, it’s the food production, labeling and shelfing system that needs a massive overhaul, if they order too much and it’s not worth stocking they throw it out early, if a freezer breaks they throw everything out early, if one product in a batch breaks they throw it out on delivery.

_________

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brimstoneSalad
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Re: Upcoming UV video on Freeganism!! (via responding to Edwins Generation)

Post by brimstoneSalad » Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:20 pm

Sure, I'll put some time on on the freegan article ASAP.

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NonZeroSum
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Re: Upcoming UV video on Freeganism!! (via responding to Edwins Generation)

Post by NonZeroSum » Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:41 pm

brimstoneSalad wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:20 pm
Sure, I'll put some time on on the freegan article ASAP.
Aces, just having a think about compost section, if anyone has feedback on kitchen scraps; hot composting vs. bokashi fermentation vs. vermiculture?

http://philosophicalvegan.com/wiki/index.php/Freeganism#Waste_that_we_can.27t_avoid

http://www.gardenmyths.com/bokashi-vs-composting/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fWJKKP55RA

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brimstoneSalad
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Re: Upcoming UV video on Freeganism!! (via responding to Edwins Generation)

Post by brimstoneSalad » Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:48 pm

I looked into it a bit, and it doesn't seem like there's a lot of solid evidence on which is best.

If somebody has a large backyard, I'd say follow the EPA advice of burying food scraps under a few inches of soil.
Otherwise, bokashi or worm composting are some good options that are low-odor.

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Re: Upcoming UV video on Freeganism!! (via responding to Edwins Generation)

Post by NonZeroSum » Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:13 pm

---

Video's up! They included a link to our Vegan YouTubers Survey:
Unnatural Vegan wrote:Survey for vegan youtubers (#6 has to do with freeganism/in-vitro meat)
http://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&p=35470
---
brimstoneSalad wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:48 pm
I looked into it a bit, and it doesn't seem like there's a lot of solid evidence on which is best.
Can't find any either, need hard figures on gas emissions in conversion.
brimstoneSalad wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:48 pm
If somebody has a large backyard, I'd say follow the EPA advice of burying food scraps under a few inches of soil.
I think many people will be turned off by that advise for fear of attracting rats. But a compost bin or tumblr is pretty easy, and most productive for getting the ratios right and creating good quality compost.
brimstoneSalad wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:48 pm
Otherwise, bokashi or worm composting are some good options that are low-odor.
Yes, bokashi works fast initially and reduces odor, so can use it as mulch after a month, but doesn't properly break down into soil for years, and no stats on gas emissions. Worm composting even faster, but have to be careful with measurement and ratio than even hot composting, and I'd want to do it outside somewhere the worms aren't trapped, and you might be buying worm food supplement to keep them around and happy.

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Re: Upcoming UV video on Freeganism!! (via responding to Edwins Generation)

Post by NonZeroSum » Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:18 am

-----

Link to the video and my comment promoting the wiki, if people want to upvote :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFShfj8Phf4&lc=UgwtQKYLwhlSMtVMza54AaABAg

When vegans eat meat (freeganism, Edwins Generation)

Thoughts on two recent videos from Edwins Generation: "I'm Vegan, But I Could Eat Meat" and "Vegan Responds To Criticism From Vegans".

Survey for vegan youtubers (#6 has to do with freeganism/in-vitro meat)
http://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&p=35470

Transcript:

So YouTuber Edwins Generation, he recently published this video called; "I'm vegan, but I could eat meat," where he talks about his recent personal experience eating some chicken that was going to be thrown away, he didn't want it to go to waste so he ate it and I agree that this was a good thing to do.

This is basically freeganism, I've talked about that a few times on this channel, I did a whole two part series on food waste, the second part of which specifically deals with freeganism. I also talked about it quite a bit in my response to Gary Francione several months ago, earlier this year I think.

Whilst I don't personally dumpster-dive, or anything like that, I have ordered something that ended up having animal products on it and then just ate it anyway because again I didn't want to waste it.

I think the last time that happened spent a long time like a few years ago my brother and I went to Taco Bell, I remember and I ordered a burrito, no cheese, it had cheese on it, you know you pick off what you can, but it's kind of like in there right, so whatever I ate the cheese, it was fine.

And then I think another time before that I was at this little, this little lettuce place it was called lettuce eat ha ha ha, they're close uh, of course "let us eat," I ordered a salad, with it was supposed to be tofu, but I guess they they kind of look similar, tofu and feta cheese, so there was feta cheese, gross, that was not something I ever ate even before I was vegan but I ate it anyway, again the damage was done, there was no point in letting the food go to waste.

Anyway Edwin then made a follow-up video to his first video just going through some of the negative comments that he got from some vegans from some fellow vegans and there are some interesting parts of that video that i would like to talk about, so here we go:

Got it quite a few comments telling me that hey make up your own name but don't you can't sit with us another joke ok don't take it seriously if i were to say something like i'm a frigate aryan or something a stranger a family member a friend would not get it at all they would i would have to start explaining it would be so confusing it would be so much more pain in the butt but when I say I'm vegan a lot of people get it so this actually makes some sense to me this this might be true you know I've had conversations with people who they knew what vegan was but they only knew it to mean you don't eat meat dairy eggs like you don't eat animal products right so then you know if I said something like oh I support in-vitro meat right you know I I think in vitro meat is great and is vegan they're shocked it's like what how can that but it's neat that's how can it be vegan it can't be vegan in any context right and so then I'd have to talk about the definition of vegan and exploitation and you know the difference between you know ethical and dietary veganism and I don't I don't think it helped like much at all like it's I think they thought that I was I was trying to get out of something right like I was trying to just make an excuse for eating animal products my point is is that I can see the same sort of thing happening with freakin ISM just just people not understanding it again because they have this kind of diet definition of veganism not understanding the ethics behind it not understanding the economics behind at all not understanding that the issue isn't really with eating the meat but with supporting the production of that meat right not understanding that there's a huge difference between eating some chicken that's gonna go in the trash and like purchasing that chicken yourself or having someone else purchase it for you and I can kind of see this backfiring and like a personal situation like you tell a family member or something that your freegan and they're like oh I get it and they take it to mean that like okay you won't buy animal products but I can buy animal products for you right and then like buying you some eggs or something I'm not saying that this is definitely gonna happen or that I've heard of this happening or anything like that I can just I can imagine that happening and I'm not saying that freegans should like hide being freegan or just everyone you know if you're freaking just say you're vegan to make it easier or anything like that I think it's important that this has talked about with people including with non vegans but I do think it depends on the the context and personal preference so you know I don't see any problem with a freakin just saying yeah I'm vegan just to make things easier right I think it just depends you know if you're in a situation where you're talking with someone who you know obviously doesn't really want to talk about it or is being defensive or is asking questions in like a an aggressive way I'm sure all of you have experienced that before then yeah it's probably easier to just say like yeah I'm vegans be done with it right but if someone is like questioning and really wants to know then that might be a good opportunity to actually talk about it and try to like explain the ethics and the economics behind it but but again it depends on the person depends on the situation I remember what what chicken wings tasted like when I when I enjoyed it and I taste it again and it still tasted good like to meet tastebuds just don't go away like if I enjoyed something two weeks ago and I taste it again it still is gonna taste similar to me I don't understand how vegans have this mentality that it's like ah I saw the torture so what no Lenore tastes good like I'm sorry look I I understand it I've seen the videos and everything but it still tastes good so this obviously depends on the person too you know there are some vegans who say even like short term vegans vegans who haven't even been vegan that long who are like yeah I don't miss animal products at all you know there's just that really intense that yuck factor there it's usually like this moral disgust they're just they cannot see the chicken breast without thinking of the the chicken suffering right but then there are other vegans who just they don't have that sort of thing and they really do like still like a products they can imagine eating a hamburger or whatever and it's like yeah that would probably be delicious or even like longing for these products I've read comments from longtime vegans who are like yeah I still think about certain foods yeah like I miss those foods I wish I could eat those foods it's like smoking you know some smokers it's like they never think about smoking anymore but then there are others who haven't smoked in years and it's like yeah I still think about lighting up multiple times a day for me there there are definitely certain animal products that I'm pretty sure I would still like like hot dogs and the chicken nuggets McDonald's chicken nuggets it's like all the processed stuff I've said before like that's you know I was never big on like the t-bone steak in like chicken breasts and stuff like stuff that had like that wasn't uniform right it wasn't processed so there's like gristle and cartilage oh god like if I got any of that it's like nope can't eat anymore that's disgusting so I always gravitated towards the like the taco meat you know the ground beef the stuff that was more uniform and I didn't have to worry about bone or anything else yeah I mean look I'm I'm pretty sure if I ate some deviled ham with saltines today I probably liked it but again a steak chicken breast a drumstick I don't I don't think I could handle that not only again because I didn't really like these foods before but they're so close to the animal for me now I don't think I could disassociate it I don't I don't think I could see it as anything more than like where it came from whereas deviled ham and hot dogs are like barely even food but either way does this even matter I mean should we really be shaming people who are willing to admit that like yeah certain animal products still sound good to me or like yeah I actually miss eating those foods I mean isn't the important thing that these people are vegan I feel like we need to acknowledge that there is some sacrifices to be made you know like just because it tastes good doesn't mean we need it like we don't require a real chicken wing we have that little substitute if anything I think these people should be praised right like they're the ones we should be saying like hell yeah good job people who find it easy to 98 animals and to be vegan like I'm not making any sort of sacrifice but people who are like yeah I miss those foods but they still say no and they still stay vegan that's awesome vegans don't eat meat because they are fundamentally against exploitation and cruelty towards animals the problem with your scenario is that even if you're not buying it yourself you're still eating animal flesh and viewing animals as products which they are not so this is a critique of freeganism that I've seen a lot this idea that eating the chicken that's just gonna be thrown in the trash or wearing leather that you got you know before you went vegan that this is like a kind of slippery slope back to exploiting animals right because you're still viewing the animals as products that could actually be true you know I could see how someone who is free an or trying to be freegan may they could try to justify other you know not freakin forms of eating me you know maybe they can't find the freakin options and they really want meat so maybe just this once they end up purchasing some meat instead but this should not be used to justify fear-mongering against freeganism against dumpster-diving it does not contribute to animal exploitation and it's a viable option for some people there's also the concern that doing this that again for example you know eating the chicken that's gonna be thrown in the trash or wearing leather that you already had that doing this could or definitely will depends on who's talking I guess we'll you know contribute to exploitation by others by other people because you are sending the message that you know animals are products and so you are encouraging people to exploit animals to the extent that anybody sees you eat them you certainly are increasing demand because you're reinforcing the idea that animal foods are things to eat and that is going to increase the man because you're sending a message out and that it that message is consistent with the overall species this message that leads to our exploiting non-human animals but as I've asked before including in my response to that video from Gary France Ian do we have any evidence for this you know I see this claim being made a lot and it's very authoritative you know vegans are saying this as if it's been proven this is a fact you know this idea that eating the chicken that's going to be thrown in the trash or wearing the old leather or you know eating eggs from a rescued backyard hen or dumpster diving that these sorts of practices are definitely 100 percent contributing or going to contribute to animal exploitation where is the evidence and to those of you who still eat meat like serious question if you saw someone dumpster diving and like pulling meat out of a dumpster is that really appetizing like does that really make you like want to eat meat does that feel like I don't know like it's reinforcing eating meat for you I feel like if I still ate me and I saw that it would have the opposite effect it's perfectly possible that be freegan for instance that this actually helps veganism and actually helps to end exploitation I mean maybe the fact that people are being freaking and talking about it with non vegans it actually helps to show that veganism isn't all about you know purity and dogma that people don't just care about the label or they don't just want to be part of a group that we really just want to do better we want to make the world a better place via our actions I'm willing to bet that seeing veganism this way instead of as some elitist Club is far more likely to encourage people to take a look at their own purchasing habits.


------------------
*References*

Edwin's videos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKjBlW4yaxg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L65_MEtq6J8

My foodwaste/freegan series
https://youtu.be/PEP0A93pYIk
https://youtu.be/ZzH6UEOz2Bs

My response to Gary Francione
https://youtu.be/zVKLzhQFdGE


___________

More videos:
https://activistjourneys.wordpress.com/freeganism/


__________

Food Waste & Freeganism (Part 2: What is a freegan and why does it matter?)
https://youtu.be/ZzH6UEOz2Bs

Published on Sep 1, 2016
As I and others have said, vegan is not the moral baseline. There’s always more that we can do (or stop doing) to make the world a better place. I've talked about agricultural efficiency a bit in the past, but another major issue in our food supply (and one that we can do a lot about) is waste.

Part 1 on food waste: https://youtu.be/PEP0A93pYIk

Freeganism in a nutshell - https://youtu.be/ZzH6UEOz2Bs?t=23s
Fake freegans - https://youtu.be/ZzH6UEOz2Bs?t=3m1s
An intermediate to freeganism - https://youtu.be/ZzH6UEOz2Bs?t=4m5s
Conclusion: 4 tips for avoiding waste - https://youtu.be/ZzH6UEOz2Bs?t=5m27s


__________


Hey guys, this is part two of my 2 part series talking about food waste and now freeganism. So if you want to see the one on food waste you can check that out right here [1] and then come back and watch this one or don't.


Freeganism in a nutshell
- https://youtu.be/ZzH6UEOz2Bs?t=23s


Freegans are rescuers of sorts, only instead of rescuing people or animals they rescue food from being wasted, they get it from dumpsters, dumpster diving, often dumpsters behind grocery stores or bakeries, frequently still in the package and they eat that instead of buying food.

Given the harmfulness of food waste in terms of the environment that I talked about in the last video, this rather strange lifestyle freeganism is really commendable, it may even be morally superior to veganism in terms of immediate consequences on the world that we live in. As long as freegans aren't like cutting locks and vandalizing private property.

There's also no denying that such a lifestyle, freeganism, is less socially sustainable, obviously not everyone can live on waste so we do need vegan food products made for the market and people willing to buy them.

Freeganism is not an example that we can all follow, but it is something that some of the more adventurous of us can try, it also may be a good recommendation for people who are not quite ready to give up meat, obviously assuming they are willing to dig through garbage to get their fix which I'm willing to bet they're not.

*If dumpster diving, please be safe. Never choose rotten food and always wash and cook anything you do choose thoroughly before eating.

Speaking of meat, some freegans specifically ‘Meagans,’ those Freegans who are willing to eat freegan meat, they get a lot of hate in the vegan community, they're called fake vegans because they're eating meat, but again given the impact of waste on the environment, again check out part one, is this at all merited?

Again freegans are not buying the meat, they are not contributing in any way to demand, they are not stealing it off the shelves or buying it off the shelves, they are getting it from the dumpster, saving it from landfills, the grocery store is not going to replace this by buying more.

More animals are not being bred to suffer and die for the Meagan's meat:

“. . .some people will not give up eating meat. If freegans tell them there is a way that they can continue consuming animal products without economically supporting factory farming, they just might go for it.

Of course, it’s a good idea to keep educating on the benefits of healthy and ethical eating, because we don’t want a situation where, when less meat is available from the dumpsters, people go back to buying it from stores.

And many people won’t go freegan, but WILL go vegan. Through a combination of freegan and vegan outreach strategies, animal rights and social justice activists can hit the industry from several directions at once.”


Fake freegans
- https://youtu.be/ZzH6UEOz2Bs?t=3m1s


Unfortunately not all freegans do it right, there are freegans who steal food, which the store does replace, there are also freegans who get their friends and families to buy food for them, that is not freeganism.

The concept is not rocket science, but it seems that people really don't understand the difference between food that had to be replaced because you stole it or food that someone else would have eaten, so food you know like at a food bank or at a party or something and food that was legitimately going to be wasted, so food off of a vacated table at like a mall food court or again straight from a dumpster or trash can.

I think it's human bias and a very deep desire to eat things, certain things, certain animal products and whatnot that keeps people from thinking clearly and it makes it more difficult for people new to freeganism to figure out actually how to do it correctly.

So if you are going to go freegan, or meagan or whatever, again that's great, just please be mindful that you are doing it correctly.


An intermediate to freeganism
- https://youtu.be/ZzH6UEOz2Bs?t=4m5s


There is something between freeganism at the one end and buying only the freshest products at the other, something that it's fairly easy to do that will reduce waste, that doesn't require you to dumpster dive or creepily hang around food courts waiting for people to leave something even slightly edible behind on their table, I don't know, is that how freeganism works, I'm not a freegan, but that's the image that I get in my head, it doesn't sound very pleasant, anyway the tip is, don't buy the freshest produce.

Obviously I'm not suggesting to buy rotten or mouldy food, please do not do that, but you know pick things that are slightly bruised or maybe a little bit old or just ugly, things that people are very likely not going to buy, this will keep the store from throwing them out, you may even be able to get a discount on these items, be sure to talk to your produce manager to see.

Some stores like Kroger, they even have a little section where they have the less pretty, little bit older stuff for sale and that's really cool it's a practice that we should really try to reward, the same goes for packaged products as well.

Bread is a really good example, instead of doing what most of us to which is sifting through the bread trying to find the one with the latest sale by date, go for the one with the soonest sale by date, the one that most people are not going to buy.


Conclusion: 4 tips for avoiding waste
- https://youtu.be/ZzH6UEOz2Bs?t=5m27s


And now to summarize all of the tips from the last video and this one:

To avoid waste:

#1: Focus on staple foods (dry beans, nuts, whole grains, etc.)

So number one, eat mainly efficient, non-perishable staples like dry beans and whole grain products that you can prepare and eat within a couple of days. This virtually eliminates retail waste and waste during long-term storage in your kitchen number.

#2: For perishables, plan ahead and store correctly.

Number two, for prepared dishes and perishables like produce, buy or make only what you can eat before it goes bad, store carefully and keep of them eating leftovers and surveying your produce regularly and eating things before they go bad.

#3: For perishables, buy reduced for quick sale items.

Number three, when you do shop for produce and other perishables, try to buy the reduced for quick sell stuff and eat or prepare them quickly and remember that thorough cooking it usually sterilizes the food and resets the clock so to speak for spoilage, this can also be useful if you want to keep something longer.

#4: Seek out ugly, bruised produce that people are less willing to buy and packaged food closer to its sell-by date.

Number four, if you cannot find quick sell items and are planning to prepare and eat the food soon, try to overcome the compulsion for freshness and buy something a little older, bruised or closer to its sell-by date, rather than as far away as possible. This helps reduce waste in the store, since many other consumers will avoid these products and they might have gone to waste. This is not freeganism obviously, but it is a middle ground and every little bit can help.

So that's it, thank you so much, I really hope you enjoyed this video if you have any comments or questions, please leave them below, if you are freegan I would love to hear from you, that would be really cool, so please leave your comments below, any kind of experiences you have or maybe something that I got wrong, that'd be cool and if you want to subscribe, subscribe and thanks again, I will have a new video [shrugs].


------------------------
*References*

Part 1 on food waste:
https://youtu.be/PEP0A93pYIk

Meaganism and the End of Animal Agriculture:
https://freegan.info/what-is-a-freegan/freegan-philosophy/freeganism-and-animal-rights/meaganism-as-a-strategy-for-dismantling-animal-agriculture/


____________


Why wasting food is so bad & simple ways to avoid it (UV video)

As I and others have said, vegan is not the moral baseline. There’s always more that we can do (or stop doing) to make the world a better place. I've talked about agricultural efficiency a bit in the past, but another major issue in our food supply (and one that we can do a lot about) is waste.

Part 2 on freeganism: https://youtu.be/ZzH6UEOz2Bs

0:37 - Magnitude of waste
2:01 - Why waste is so bad
4:05 - Avoiding waste at home
5:12 - What to do about inevitable waste
6:06 - Waste in retail

------------------------
References

1. 2014 USDA report
https://www.ers.usda.gov/media/1282296/eib121.pdf

2. Go West, Garbage Can! (Are we running out of room for our garbage?)
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/the_green_lantern/2011/02/go_west_garbage_can.html

3. Greenhouse Gas Emissions
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_of_meat_production#Greenhouse_gas_emissions

4. Reducing wasted food at home (EPA)
https://www.epa.gov/recycle/reducing-wasted-food-home

5. Composting at home (EPA)
https://www.epa.gov/recycle/composting-home


Hey guys. As I and many other vegans have said, vegan is not the moral baseline, there is so much more that we can do or stop doing to make the world a better place, kind of cheesy, but whatever, it's true.

I’ve talked about agricultural efficiency a little bit, I talked about it here with the whole lettuce - bacon thing and the supposed vegans who eat nothing but lettuce and how terrible these supposed vegans are you know for the environment compared to people who eat bacon, it's really stupid.

But there is another major issue in terms of our food supply, something that we actually can do a lot about and that is waste.


Magnitude of waste
https://youtu.be/PEP0A93pYIk?t=37s%7C

I talked about this a little bit in my new year's resolution video from this year about how I wanted to work on reducing waste by you know checking the fridge more often, being careful with fruits and vegetables that I buy, you know fruit that's left out, making sure to cull it you know regularly to make sure that things aren't going bad, to eat them before they do, um I think this hasn't been perfect, the year hasn’t been perfect, things still go sometimes and of course pregnancy and food aversions and whatnot haven't really helped that at all.

But I have made you know little changes, particularly with regard to like things that I buy, purchasing habits to kind of avoid certain foods that spoil easily; it's a serious problem, since almost a third of all food is wasted at the retail and home level:

In the United States, 31 percent—or 133 billion pounds—of the 430 billion pounds of the available food supply at the retail and consumer levels in 2010 went uneaten. Retail-level losses represented 10 percent (43 billion pounds) and consumer-level losses 21 percent (90 billion pounds) of the available food supply. (Losses on the farm and between the farm and retailer were not estimated due to data limitations for some of the food groups.)

The numbers are pretty insane right? Again of all the food that is produced, ten percent is wasted at the retail level, twenty one percent at home.


Why waste is so bad
https://youtu.be/PEP0A93pYIk?t=2m1s

We all know it's bad in environmental terms, with respect to production, obviously anything from an apple to something we typically think of as really environmentally unfriendly like a hamburger requires input, agricultural and energy inputs, right? So if we waste less of these things, we buy less of these things and we produce less of these things and the environment thanks us for it.

And if you eat meat that means that fewer animals are suffering and dying because of what you've bought, obviously buying the meat and consuming it is better than buying the meat and then letting it go to waste and then having to buy more to replace it.

But what about disposal itself? Apparently throwing out food has its own drastic environmental impact, and no I’m not talking about running out of landfills that is a myth, we could keep burying things practically forever, what I’m talking about is transportation, the trash has to make another trip, fuelled by fossil fuels to make it to a landfill.

Food waste accounts for the largest single component of garbage after recycling, twenty-one percent of solid municipal waste according to the EPA. And despite methods at methane venting and burning, landfills still generate substantial amounts of methane:

. . .Additionally, incinerating food waste creates emissions that harm the environment and landfilling food waste generates methane gas when food waste decomposes anaerobically. Methane is 21 times more powerful in accelerating global warming than carbon dioxide (EPA, 2011). Landfills account for 34 percent of all human- related methane emissions in the United States (EPA, 2011). In addition to methane, landfills produce leachate (a mixture of liquid waste, organic degradation byproducts, and rainwater), which may contaminate ground- water if the landfills are not properly maintained. These negative consequences are offset to some extent when energy is generated from incinerating or landfilling food (e.g., tapping the methane gas).

34%, that is even larger than the globally estimated 27% produced by enteric fermentation in animal agriculture - cow farts and burps. So this brings up an interesting question, is eating 30 bananas a day and putting 30 banana pills into a landfill, is that just as bad as eating animal products but avoiding food waste? It's unlikely since there is probably less net CO2 emissions from the banana diet, but the overall environmental impact may not be very far off.


Avoiding waste at home
https://youtu.be/PEP0A93pYIk?t=4m5s

The good news is that the vast majority of food waste is under our control 67% of it occurs at home, at the consumer level, the APA actually has a really useful guide on reducing food waste at home. [4]

The bottom line, according to them is just to try not to do it at all. Putting when food is expected to go bad on your calendar is really helpful, also storing things carefully like laying fruits out on the counter, you know separately, instead of like mashed up in bowls where it's really easy for something to go bad somewhere in the middle or on the bottom and then it can spread really, really quickly.

Avoid buying more food than you can eat right away or relatively soon if it's something that can spoil, this is something that I really struggle with, if there is you know delicious cantaloupe on sale, a crazy sale, I am so tempted to buy like five of them and there's just, I can't eat five kantalopes before they go bad, I know this but uh, it's just very tempting. Also having a leftovers night, you know eat the leftovers once or twice a week, that is really helpful as well.


Waste that we can't avoid
https://youtu.be/PEP0A93pYIk?t=5m12s

So what about the inevitable food waste like banana peels for instance, hopefully you aren't fine eating 30 bananas a day, but you may be eating a couple you know bananas a day, so obviously you have a banana peel that is inevitable waste, while the EPA recommends composting, they recommended both for food scraps and yard scraps and they have a helpful guide on how to do that as well. [5]

The basic idea is to keep it covered, so that animals don't get into it, but you also want it to get some air so that it can aerobically decompose, instead of giving off methane, cutting off air to the decomposing food like being buried deep in a landfill; this is what creates the emissions.

You can buy compost bins and tumblers, the one that you just turn to move, you can buy those online, you can even make your own, there are even specially made ones for indoors, if you do not have outdoor space.


Waste in retail
https://youtu.be/PEP0A93pYIk?t=6m6s%7C

Most of the rest of the waste is at the retail level and that may sound like we don't really have much control there, we can't really influence that at all, but actually we have a great amount of control there as well.

So let's start with what we know, what kind of food produces the most waste in general:

The top three food groups in terms of share of total value of food loss were meat, poultry, and fish (30 percent, $48 billion); vegetables (19 percent, $30 billion); and dairy products (17 percent, $27 billion).

So meat is the worst right? Which means that just by going vegetarian, you are already helping a lot in terms of waste reduction and that's not just in terms of production of these things, which we already pretty much know is wasteful in and of itself, it's harmful to the environment, obviously harmful to animals, but also in terms of the supply chain, because these things go bad very quickly in the store.

Next are veggies and dairy which are about the same, in terms of dairy obviously milk spoils and cheese moulds, in terms of veggies pretty obvious as well, I mean all of us I think have to go through sifting through the vegetables in the produce aisle right? The romaine or the broccoli or the fruit whatever it is trying to look for the stuff that isn't mouldy and gross, that's obvious waste at the retail level, so vegetarian very helpful obviously giving up meat, vegan even more so giving up meat and dairy, but you can still do more.

Basing a diet around dried staples, things that do not spoil easily, beans and nuts and whole grains, this is the best thing that we can do to avoid waste as consumers at both at home and at the retail level. You know eating a fruit and greens diet, raw till 4, fully raw, eighty:ten:ten, high raw, whatever you want to call it, it's not only unhealthy for you but certainly less environmentally friendly unless you are growing all of your food yourself and composting everything which I’m willing to bet you're not.

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Re: Upcoming UV video on Freeganism!! (via responding to Edwins Generation)

Post by ModVegan » Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:51 pm

NonZeroSum wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:57 pm
Update; doesn't plan to do any more vegan videos for a while because of the toxicity of the comments, and semi-convinced did something wrong within veganism :/ https://youtu.be/L65_MEtq6J8
That's a shame. I enjoyed UV's video response (I just saw it today).

It's so disappointing when vegans go after guys like Edwins Generation. He clearly means well, and he's not actively harming animals or exploiting them (as far as I could tell from the clips that UV used). He's just "impure", which is like catnip for angry vegans, who are thrilled to run him out of "club vegan" on a rail. :roll:

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Re: Upcoming UV video on Freeganism!! (via responding to Edwins Generation)

Post by NonZeroSum » Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:36 am

ModVegan wrote:
Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:51 pm
That's a shame. I enjoyed UV's video response (I just saw it today).

It's so disappointing when vegans go after guys like Edwins Generation. He clearly means well, and he's not actively harming animals or exploiting them (as far as I could tell from the clips that UV used). He's just "impure", which is like catnip for angry vegans, who are thrilled to run him out of "club vegan" on a rail. :roll:
Zis is true, I'll put the transcript of Eisel's response up in a bit, but just put the subjectivist/intutiionist refutation of Singer's Marginal Cases up because it's an interesting case of where vegans flip the status quo on it's head and see participating in the waste-products of animal slaughter as - as abhorrent as voluntary cannibalism, that the change is going to happen in terms of culture and instilled imagery:
http://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3665&p=35497#p35497
Last edited by NonZeroSum on Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:16 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Upcoming UV video on Freeganism!! (via responding to Edwins Generation)

Post by NonZeroSum » Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:53 am

----

Cannibals when Convenient: Edwin's Generation & Unnatural Vegan.
à-bas-le-ciel

Partly in riposte to

Unnatural Vegan's video: "When vegans eat meat (freeganism, Edwins Generation)". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFShfj8Phf4

Partly in response to:

Edwin's Generation "I'm Vegan, But I Could Eat Meat". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKjBlW4yaxg

Transcript:

Hey guys, we just did the least lit livestream ever from Mancha Airport and our live streaming audience bullied us into watching the latest video from Unnatural Vegan which is a response to Evelyn's generation which is a response to the fact that this guy calls himself vegan but he does eat meat once in a while so maybe he is in fact a freegan or a reduced area or what-have-you right well it's a good jump in at any time I have very very little to say about this matter as always I'm really kind of just disappointed in the intellectual caliber of what a natural beacon has to say about this she behaves as if there's some kind of theoretically sophisticated point to be made here and I just don't feel that there is whenever we get into I think shades of grey territory with veganism one of the useful rhetorical devices is to compare this to what questions would you be asking about cannibalism no I mean that sincerely I don't mean that in like a caddy shallow down-to-earth way here's a really good here's a really good parallel to bring animals paraben totally not comparable in any way but we can call it a parallelism you know mod vegan was asking me by email showed it to Margaret mod vegan under the youtuber she emailed me asking my position on flesh created in a laboratory like you know that through modern brand new biotechnology saying this on live stream the other day my aunts sent me a link to Memphis meats right and she said Melissa check this out you can eat meat again right I was just like well no like yeah at some point in the future you'll be able to wait she never won is just disgusting health-wise you know what you but yours my boy in terms of a quick way to deal with this in terms of rhetoric this is rhetoric as opposed to philosophy how we talk about these things well if you could create human flesh in a laboratory into that would you engage in cannibalism so that would be victimless cannibalism yeah you know now I agree if you have created human flesh in a laboratory through this kind of technology cloning technology or biotechnology uh what are the actual cultured meat this kind of thing I certainly agree ethically it's completely different from murdering someone to make unanimity eat them you know it is different but on another on the other night of course still cannibalism so I think it is in exactly that way I think it's useful to you know we'll bring to the schematics I don't have a total moral opposition to people eating cows sorry fake cow meat created in a vat in a laboratory through biotech you know I understand that is something very different however I would never do it and I can't imagine any compelling argument why I should do it you know there's in terms of human health and in terms of so many things and also you know I don't know why people are so contentious to this issue of finding something disgusting I think in many cases we find things disgusting for a reason not maybe not all cases but if I say to you would you eat a human arm that was produced in a laboratory a human arm with fingernails and bone and everything is pulled out of a vat its cultured meat it was never part of a living person this person wasn't born and they weren't died they might say oh that's disgusting well we can examine that why do they find disgusting is it for absolutely no reason is this something completely irrational or is the argument to the contrary rational but sure I mean obviously it's going to be progress for the vegan movement when we can detach the production of meat from the slaughter of animals that's going to be an unbelievable change in human civilization and of course I welcome it but on the other hand if you talk about my personal ethics and my personal identity one of the reasons why I don't eat meat is because I don't want to be the kind of person to eat its meat I'm gonna gonna come back to that just a minute here one of the reasons why I don't engage in cannibalism because I don't want to be a cannibal you know this actually has some significance even if it's a victimless crime even if you're you're eating human flesh she didn't kill someone or even if the person gave their consent to be eaten after their death and they then died of natural causes which actually there is a legal precedent for I remember reading about a case going through the courts where a person agreed to be eaten you know the way they explicitly arranged I'm sorry this is life on Earth in 21st century if you google it I'm sure you can find a bunch obvious probably not unique probably there have been several courses cases in the in the court that way right so I think there still is something significant about refusing to be a cannibal unless you're in one of those desert island scenarios unless your airplane is crashed in the Hebrides and we all know there are those bizarre scenarios where it's cannibalism or death but even then we probably have to ask ourselves whether or not cannibalism is a fate worse than death so look I just say in general I think the comparison of cannibalism is often a useful way to frame the discussion if and when you get into an apparent gray area about veganism so in this case there's I think a fake gray area created about veganism defined in terms of whether or not you pay for the food now I do think that paying for food is significant significant economically and morally and personally I do feel very differently about it I mean the other day we ate dinner with some of my bosses and my employers and co-workers and they were paying for their own food and they paid for me I would feel very differently about it if I were the one paying for that meal like a croute meal of people I would refuse to buy meat for other people and I have been put in that position where people expect you to you know and it's it's it's rough there's a big it's not nice it's not great to tell your boss no I'm not gonna pay for your meal you know sir this isn't China but it could be similar in Western culture no I'm not gonna buy it's actually I think it's immoral for me because you ordered meat you know so you know those are those articles you read so I'm not gonna say that the question of paying for something or not paying for something is of trivial significant so that it's irrelevant it is of some significance but again in the same way that I think this question of cannibalism is still of some significance even if the arm comes out of out of that you know um you know this question of eating meat one of the reasons why I don't eat meat is because I want to be the kind of person who refuse do you mean one of the reasons why I live my life in a kind of simple morally consistent way is because I don't want to be inconsistent and that's most of what they get into where they start to pretend this is something theoretically sophisticated is to get into these sorts of acquitted ease of well in this scenario would you do X or Y you're sitting at a dinner table with other people and they ordered meat and the meat will go to waste the meat will go into the garbage would you prefer to eat that meat rather than see it go to waste for the garbage this kind of thing well then you're a person who's making a bunch of complex excuses for what could be a very simple moral position you know I've said this a long time ago in a lot of context in real life cooperation and work with your your friends and colleagues what we mean by sanity is often very close to reliability with another person's reliable well not you can count on them you know that counts for a lot that matters a lot you know and it's very close to us on the saying being someone who's reliable and I don't even mean accountable but someone whose morality makes sense to the society around you it makes sense to yourself it's coherent it doesn't have these kinds of exceptions that's that's worth something to me you know so anyway sorry I from my perspective there is nothing complex about this I guess the illusion is that there's something immoral about rotten meat being put in a dumpster and I don't see it that way at all like to me that would be the same as justifying cannibalism by claiming there's something immoral but a human corpse being buried in the earth and thus going to waste as opposed to being eaten I don't see it as immoral to put expired cheese in the dumpster put expired cheese in the dumpster that's where it belongs yeah I don't think you're doing something morally positive by rescuing that cheese from the dumpster or by rescuing meat from going into the dumpster in the same sense I don't think you're doing so morally positive by rescuing a corpse in the burial ground and engaging in cannibalism although that also could be justified as having some kind of positive ecological benefit, as avoiding food waste as avoiding greenhouse gas emissions and all these other things that people have kind of thrown in to complicate the matter.

Yeah I know Unnatural Vegan made the point that Edwin's Generation it should be praised because I want to eat decides not to most of the time and I don't see that you know this comparison is useful like what if somebody wanted to eat human flesh but because they know what's wrong they decide not to should we be praising them should we really really yeah I mean you know obviously comparisons are odious but that was an especially bizarre part of her her statement and you know I said well what about the comparison to rape which many vegans make you know well you think someone is more praiseworthy because they want to commit crimes whether it's rape or murder or cannibalism what-have-you and they either hold back from it or only engage in it when it's in this sense facilitated for them by someone else's unethical behavior because the fundamental situation here is you're sitting at a table in the other somebody else commits an unethical Act which again could be comforting someone killing someone so they can engage in cannibalism or whatever comparison you want to make and then you are free right in on their own ethical action you're taking advantage of your opportunity taking advantage of their unethical act and you're considering that to be morally neutral on your own part or unnatural vegan says morally praiseworthy because this is something you really desire to do but you oppress that desire more than other it's bizarre it's completely bizarre to me yeah and you also made the point that unnatural vegan says that we shouldn't be shaming these people why not why shouldn't you just what what are you going to be ashamed of in this life if not cannibalism what are you gonna be ashamed of in this life if not you know eating meat and I said to you you you made a comparison to quitting smoking but I mean very simply I don't see it as shameful in the same way you know if someone is trying to quit smoking and they fail you know they smoke cigarettes well ultimately you know nobody quits smoking in order to save the lives of the tobacco plants you know ultimately the tobacco plants aren't suffering here and so on and there aren't the same ecological example so what if you what if you saw a cigarette on the ground great would it be wrong for it to go in the landfill even better even better okay so you're sitting around a table and somebody does half a line of cocaine and then they get up and leave I know they leave half a line of cocaine so are you gonna take the argument okay well it's gonna go to a souther wise if you get up from the table that person laughs then that half line of cocaine snow is one of the reasons not to do that is because you don't want to be the kind of person who uses cocaine not even once in a while I want to be the kind of person who never uses cocaine who I want to be you know the opportunity of anyone you're you know right even when you didn't make the purchase to the moral choice well you didn't make the economic choice you didn't buy it you didn't pay for it but this still is support lis a statement a decision about Who I am what kind of person would be I don't see that in terms of virtue ethics in the strict sense I see that as aspirational what kind of person do I aspire to be I aspired the kind of person who doesn't compromise who never uses cocaine etc and I want to be the kind of person who never eats meat and it's a totally those are two totally attainable goals as long as you don't get into making these kinds of these kinds of excuses for yourself yeah alright so that's it eleven minutes of me saying I I think this video should have been two minutes long I don't get it I mean talk about making a mountain out of a molehill talk about baking cake without any flour I think that this is just making a controversy out of something where you know there's no controversy to be had.

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Re: Upcoming UV video on Freeganism!! (via responding to Edwins Generation)

Post by NonZeroSum » Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:16 am

---

Some comment threads that spawned off from this:


Vegans Can Eat Meat? Re: Edwins Generation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQO401azjDg&lc=UgyrLu0zwfn8rpZAeiZ4AaABAg

Activist Journeys
Great breakdown of the video, subscribed. Just one or two comments Re: "You're right, and do you know what would save even more money and methane emissions from being released into the atmosphere, not visiting restaurants, you know like actual freegans."

I think this stereotype is the reason Edwin doesn't want to identify his actions as freegan, rather they just eat some cold meats ordered by other people that they couldn't eat and no longer want to, which I do think is freegan, but not a requirement of being freegan, I recommend reading this article for all the actions that being freegan can encompass, but are not mandatory:
http://philosophicalvegan.com/wiki/index.php/Freeganism

"The interest in stripping back and living as minimally as possible can be seen to be more synonymous with Zero Waste. However, Freeganism also concerns itself with how society's most abundant, most energy intensive products are poorly managed. In this way, Freeganism and Zero Waste have a similar consumer activist mindset that can mean taking steps to lead the way in changing consumer practices."

I think freeganism does fall under most ethical definitions of veganism, but it's more coherent to have a plurality of terms when it comes to the action itself to avoid confusion. So someone might define themselves as a vegan but decide to act freegan some days, as freegan is a portmanteau of free + vegan, so dietary vegan + products that are free (no longer commercially viable).

--------

Vegans Can Eat Meat? Re: Edwins Generation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQO401azjDg&lc=UgwJfAMtLpCDvCsgTjp4AaABAg

Melora Beecroft
Lots of people become obese eating other people’s leftovers. Energy captured from landfills is a thing. Eventually we’ll power everything from trash.

Activist Journeys
Becoming more and more efficient at recycling resources is definitely a priority as a society. I don't however think a good fix would be that we carry on wasting at the rate we are, but that it gets burnt off in some slightly more environmentally friendly way than being buried. I think there is a place for stopgap measures before we get to that perfectly legislated system, where some freegans are willing to drive to mega-supermarkets fill the van up to the brim with perfectly edible packaged food inside double-wrapped bin bags, put out that night. Who then bring it home and cook it up often for the homeless by street tabling like Food not Bombs do, making meals for carnists that would otherwise eat more bought animal products. Also although calorie counting is a problem for some, which might lead some to avoid the habit, it doesn't detract from it being a good carbon negative act for most.

-------

Footsoldier's Unnatural Vegan Isn't Vegan (Freeganism Response)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9tZGBa0x4I&lc=Ugx4WW6VRmdgnV8stPx4AaABAg

Activist Journeys
Re: "if anyone who doesn't know about freeganism, it’s essentially dumpster diving for food because either you're too poor or too stingy to actually buy food and so you just get it out of bins." Not even close, you've just taken a stereotype of the most prolific image or action people relate to freegans and declared that "the definition." Freegans want the kind of food sharing solutions you gave as an example like in Berlin, but as a stop-gap to that perfectly legislated system, some are willing to drive to mega-supermarkets fill the van up to the brim with perfectly edible packaged food inside double-wrapped bin bags put out that night, bring it home and cook it up often for the homeless by street tabling like Food not Bombs do.

Freeganism is not just about dumpster diving and you don't need to dumpster dive to be a freegan, what UV did or Edwin did is freegan, go read up on all the actions that it can encompass:
http://philosophicalvegan.com/wiki/index.php/Freeganism

I get not seeing animals as food is an important idea to push, but freegans drawing attention to the ridiculous waste built into meat production, distribution and consumption, like the zero waste lifestylers are allies in that fight. If you are convinced about the hard effect we can have via supply and demand then freegans offset climate change for being carbon negative and reduce animal cruelty by feeding waste meat to their cats or making meals for carnists that would otherwise eat more bought animal products.

Added your video to my Freeganism page as the other vegan side who are against anyway, hope you change your mind. Again what UV or Edwin did is freegan, but you don't need to do that, dumpster dive or eat any animal products to be a freegan:
https://activistjourneys.wordpress.com/freeganism/

I try to support vegan cafes and restaurants whenever I can, but if I ever eat at a place that cooks meat and get served something with animal in it, I might not be able to eat it and send it back, but I'm not so naive that I think yelling and having a fit is going to endear them to adding more vegan dishes to the menu. Quoting UV:

"Definitely, it's good to let the waiter know it's not what you ordered, even if you do end up eating it. Most won't save it for another patron, unfortunately. The hospital I stayed in for L&D did, though. They kept bringing up trays of food, and we kept turning them away. Every patient got the same thing so they would just take it to the next room."

------

When vegans eat meat (freeganism, Edwins Generation)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFShfj8Phf4&lc=Ugz982NhYYRiYXkw9GB4AaABAg

Tim M
As if Veganism isn't already (perceived as) weird enough without a weird sub-sect who eat meat out of the trash..

Activist Journeys
Heya, would you prefer people just never mention the amount of wasted perfectly edible food? There is nothing wrong with asking to arrange a time to pick up food about to be thrown away or taking pristine packaged food in double wrapped trashbags out the dumpster. Poorly managed and legislated production, distribution and consumer use is an environmental catastrophe driving climate change: http://philosophicalvegan.com/wiki/index.php/Freeganism

Tim M
What makes it relevant to veganism tho?

Activist Journeys
Because it's part of what being an ethical vegan can mean for some, it is even more moral than veganism for its carbon negative effect. Granted not everyone can do it, but it encompasses a lot of practices that bring attention to an environmentally damaging industry that simple dietary vegans want to stop too.

Tim M
Sounds more like an attempt by environmentalists to co-opt veganism. There's nothing inherently vegan about bringing attention to environmentally damaging industry practices.

Activist Journeys
The only good reason to be consistently vegan is ethics, promoting consistent ethics means acknowledging all that encompasses, for the same reason we can be concerned about the wastefulness to our planet of bringing animals into our world only to suffer for taste, we can offset some of that by deciding to nourish ourselves on the waste that failed to sell commercially, or give it to carnivorous cats, it's a win for veganism and brings attention to a broken system.

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When vegans eat meat (freeganism, Edwins Generation)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFShfj8Phf4&lc=UgyUreQN78glJgutC694AaABAg

Alex Wood
this is exactly what happened to me, my best friend kept making me non-vegan brownies knowing I'd eat them. It was 2yrs ago where I put my foot down and told her I wouldn't eat them- and didn't. Some food went to waste but she doesn't do it anymore. Actually, she tried to do it recently and we had a big fight about it. She intentionally made something with ghee in it and said to me 'but I knew you wouldn't want to waste it.' I was really upset that she thought it was okay to intentionally make me non-vegan food just because she thinks ghee is super healthy or something. I'm still a freegan but the only animal products I'll eat are like in cookies or baked goods. I can't stomach anything notably animal product related (including gummy bears or jelly), I haven't eaten animal products in ages now though.

Activist Journeys
Really sad story, some people feel so threatened by not wanting to understand friends living different ethical choices and will cross a bunch of boundaries into being a shitty person to try and get you to be more like them without even thinking twice.

TheZhukee
Woah doesn’t sound like a great friendship :/

CaraCara Naranja
Alex Wood you need new friends!

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