I need to know

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Unknownfromheaven
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I need to know

Post by Unknownfromheaven » Sun Dec 20, 2015 5:27 pm

Hello,

i am writing this since i felt very recently that i am not desired here. maybe it was a wrong impression but now i want to make sure of something.
My impulse was to make friends when i first joined this forum and my main purpose was to exchange informations and to learn from eachother, I know very well something, that we agree on one thing, oposing religion and dogma.

As far as i posted here, i assure everyone that i am not a troll and that i honestly shared what i think.

The questions are. Do you want me to leave ? Did i disturbed someone with my views or claims ? If so, i am sorry.

I came here to stay, but if its not desired i do not wish to upset anyone. I am waiting for replies.

Thank you.
All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force..We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent Mind. This Mind is the matrix of all matter.” ~ Max Planck - Quantum Theory and Nobel Prize in Physics in 1918.

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EquALLity
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Post by EquALLity » Sun Dec 20, 2015 6:46 pm

What, where did you get that impression?
"I am not a Marxist." -Karl Marx

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Unknownfromheaven
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Post by Unknownfromheaven » Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:55 pm

EquALLity wrote:What, where did you get that impression?
I had this feeling from a recent conversation, i need to know if my presence here does not disturb anyone...i am asking this because in the past when i tried to engage in conversations with atheists i was accused that i am troll, have been blocked, etc so it kind was a bad experience for me, i want to make sure that this forum is indeed different.
All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force..We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent Mind. This Mind is the matrix of all matter.” ~ Max Planck - Quantum Theory and Nobel Prize in Physics in 1918.

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Post by Insert name here » Sun Dec 20, 2015 8:20 pm

Unknownfromheaven wrote:I had this feeling from a recent conversation, i need to know if my presence here does not disturb anyone...i am asking this because in the past when i tried to engage in conversations with atheists i was accused that i am troll, have been blocked, etc so it kind was a bad experience for me, i want to make sure that this forum is indeed different.

I can say they your presence here doesn't disturb me, and like EquALLity said, where did you get that impression? What conversation gave you that feeling?
Insert signature here.

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Unknownfromheaven
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Post by Unknownfromheaven » Sun Dec 20, 2015 9:43 pm

Insert name here wrote:I can say they your presence here doesn't disturb me, and like EquALLity said, where did you get that impression? What conversation gave you that feeling?
It was a conversation with a fellow peer here, its all solved now, i think or hope.

If someone else has a different view, please let me know.

Thank you!
All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force..We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent Mind. This Mind is the matrix of all matter.” ~ Max Planck - Quantum Theory and Nobel Prize in Physics in 1918.

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Post by knot » Sun Dec 20, 2015 10:18 pm

Forums tend to die when people arent allowed to disagree with each other. Just look at atheism+ forums!

I don't really know enough about that subject you were discussing, so I cant comment on it

I think it's mostly always a bad practice to call other people trolls, because it's hard to tell if someone is genuine about an unusual belief or not.

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Unknownfromheaven
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Post by Unknownfromheaven » Sun Dec 20, 2015 10:22 pm

Thank you knot, fortunetly this was not the case, i said that it did happened to me in my past.
All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force..We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent Mind. This Mind is the matrix of all matter.” ~ Max Planck - Quantum Theory and Nobel Prize in Physics in 1918.

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Post by brimstoneSalad » Mon Dec 21, 2015 8:25 am

You're certainly welcome. We're glad to have somebody sharing different views, as well as somebody so active.

Your martial arts thread was particularly interesting!
And the sound and music videos you shared were cool.

Sorry I've been a bit busy so haven't replied much (I will try to find time to reply to the deism issue soon).
I also hope somebody makes a thread to share favorite clips of martial arts; that was a cool idea.

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Post by Unknownfromheaven » Mon Dec 21, 2015 1:19 pm

Thank you brimstoneSalad:)
All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force..We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent Mind. This Mind is the matrix of all matter.” ~ Max Planck - Quantum Theory and Nobel Prize in Physics in 1918.

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Post by Dream Sphere » Mon Dec 21, 2015 7:56 pm

For anyone who doesn't know. The conversation was between Unknownfromheaven and myself in the thread titled "3 Questions for atheists". The confusion regarding that specific issue I think has been resolved, but I'm posting this to just further clear things up.

I want to start out saying that I am very much alright with your presence on this forum, Unknownfromheaven. I like your presence here very much, as you provide a different and interesting perspective, and you seem like a good, nice person. Also, while I do disagree with you sometimes, that doesn't need to matter, I'm okay that we disagree sometimes, and I don't want any of my disagreements with your arguments to be taken personally.


The following quotes are the ones that particularly relate to this confusion between Unknownfromheaven and myself.

I had said, (after watching a video which Unknownfromheaven presented to me)
Dream Sphere wrote:“The third video which seems to be uploaded by you is something which I'm not sure of what to make of. I know that those sorts of videos have often been shown to be mis-identifications or doctored/video edited/staged/hoaxed, and I can't see how that video would be any different, and it's gotten me to wonder how genuine you are being with what you're saying. If you made that video and it was an intentional hoax/doctoring, then I would like to end our discussion here as I don't think I could see it going anywhere good. If you had made that video and you were recording what you genuinely thought you were seeing, and in which case I would think that it would be an instance of misidentification. Normal people can misidentify things. Also, I'm wondering of the possibility that you did not record it, but decided to upload that video to your youtube channel, the video which may have come from elsewhere? Where did it come from if so? “
What I intended to mean by this was that, with what Unknownfromheaven showed me and with my disbelief in it, I had thought of three things that might be how things are. I had initially supposed that Ufh (is it okay with you if I abbreviate your username like this?) may have intentionally recorded that video as a hoax, and if that was the case, that that meant that they were being deceitful and that I wouldn't want to continue my conversation with Ufh, if that were true that Ufh had intentionally had made a hoax video and used it as evidence.

The main reason why I suggested wanting to end the conversation was because of the suspicion I had about if Ufh may have been being deceitful. But, I was always okay with continuing the conversation if Ufh was being truthful regarding Ufh's claims of the video being evidence, as Ufh believed it genuinely.

The second possibility (as I kinda mentioned right above, but I want to type this separately) I had thought of had to do with Ufh having recorded it, in true belief of what Ufh thought they were recording. The part that I put in bold in the above quote is the thing which I meant to say better. But, I realize that how I said that, especially the bit that followed after could make what I was saying appear quite unclear.

Then the third thing I had thought of was if Ufh hadn't been there, but had decided to upload the video to Ufh's channel. Which I would also be okay with, as it would seem that they still genuinely believed in the truth of what Ufh uploaded. This is the thing (if I remember correctly) which Ufh had said was true of these three possibilities I had been thinking of.


In this following quote from me, after Ufh replied, I shortly stated my wondering of the possibilities, the possibilities which I mentioned above here. By "haven't certainly" I meant for that to mean that I wasn't actively claiming that Ufh was trolling or anything like that, just that it had crossed my mind as a possibility, but I was unsure of that one possibility being true. (Although, I'm unsure if I ever really needed to mention my suspicions of it, I think I got ahead of myself and I should have took some time to realize that Ufh was being genuine.)
Dream Sphere wrote:“Is this about my wondering of whether that third video might be a hoax? I haven't certainly thought that other people put you up to uploading that video, I was just wondering about the possibilities of why or how you would come by that video and decide to upload it. “

Then I later came to realize that I had been worrying too much, and that I had been wrongly suspicious of Ufh intentions.
Dream Sphere wrote:“I'm sorry if I came off as harsh. I meant to say that I might not want to continue the conversation if you were being actively deceitful. I don't really think you are now, so I'm okay to continue the conversation for now. “


Also, something about my behaviour that I really regret is about how I had also been much too emphatic with expressing some of what I had thought of some things, which I can now see as likely coming off as offensive. Here are some examples, which I'm ashamed of in regards to the carelessness I had taken in making them.
Dream Sphere wrote:"The first video there reeked of awful sensationalism, and its presentation near immediately made me wary of its credibility. If it was based on facts and hard evidence, then why are they presenting the video in such a way as to get people caught up in its woo-ful wonder, without properly analyzing the information, which itself doesn't seem credible at all. "
I didn't intend for the below to be interpreted in a sarcastic/rude way, although I can see now how it could easily be taken that way, so I'm sorry for how I worded this. I meant these as serious questions.
Dream Sphere wrote:So, you've got a university degree in psychology? I wouldn't think that a general degree would specify in teaching the student how to spot if people are telling the truth or lying, although I guess that that could be a part of a more specific or specialized course? (I don't know about that, so if you could elaborate on your role in the field of psychology, that could help clarify things,) I'm also wondering if you're telling the truth here, and even if you can tell when people are or aren't lying with a great accuracy, it may be that those kids believe they thought they saw what they claimed, but that doesn't mean they saw what they thought they did. "

Also, something which I didn't address in that thread, which I think is a case of some confusion which I would like to clear up.

Unknownfromheaven said --
Unknownfromheaven wrote:Do you know what theists say about aliens ? that these are demons or devils...and for me its like saying that other species here are also in that way, so if it is something irrational is what is pointed out by the religious people.
I replied --
Dream Sphere wrote:I do think that that is a silly claim for Theists to make. If aliens exist, then I would similarly guess that they're just biological life forms from a planet other than ours. But, I also think it's silly to believe that aliens have visited Earth, as the mainstream scientific community doesn't seem to claim anything of the sort, and I don't see anything else which makes believing that aliens have visited Earth to be reasonable.
Unknownfromheaven replied --
Unknownfromheaven wrote:Saying that other species are devils does not make any sense to me. The gov do hold on with things because it would mean that the people were lied and its embarrassing...i knew that some official countries have released some documents (i cannot remember now, i will edit this post after further research). It’s not only international governments; the FBI, CIA, and NSA have all declassified some of the secret files, which again demonstrates a high level of interest in the phenomenon:

“Behind the scenes, high ranking air force officers are soberly concerned about the UFOs. But through official secrecy and ridicule, many citizens are led to believe that the unknown flying objects are nonsense.” – Former Head of CIA, Roscoe Hillenkoetter, 1960
With what I had said in the above exchange, I intended to say that I agreed with Unknownfromheaven that, if aliens exist, that they aren't supernatural/evil creatures like some Theists seem to propose. Although, with what I had later said, I could see it as being interpreted as taking a dig at Ufh's beliefs in a rude way, though what I meant was an expressing of my views on that, and not to personally attack Ufh.


Another problem which I found with my posts in that thread was how (and I tend to do this elsewhere, and am bothered by it here and there too) I sometimes make too many assertions and don't back them up well. Sometimes I wonder if it may be possible for me to learn on a subject better, so that I could better back up my arguments, as some of what we were discussing got into territory which I'm very ignorant of. In these cases I tend to prefer to try to back up my arguments as well as I can, but primarily since I know that in some cases I don't know something well enough to properly argue it, that I put my beliefs out there for the sake of getting criticized, rather than claiming that I'm necessarily correct. I find that when I do that that it can still stimulate conversation well, and sometimes both whoever I'm talking with and myself can learn something from it, but I had a problem there with possibly presenting my arguments as correct too much in that thread. (Part of the reason why is because I didn't want to get too tied up in disclaiming that I'm not claiming what I'm saying to be necessarily true, and didn't feel like keeping a tab posted on how many things which I'm not an expert or even hardly versed on. So, it may have been a bit of laziness on my part, more than actively claiming that I was right.)

Another, somewhat unaddressed thing, which I fear could be taken wrongly has to do with the below quoted. I was being genuine with that question and my concern with it. I have OCD, so I've had experience with how certain things can take up a lot of time, energy and effort, and exchange themselves in place of better possibilities for my well-being. I didn't mean to be offensive, as I was actually concerned at the possibility that Ufh's interest in some of these things might be hindering Ufh in achieving other things which may be of importance to Ufh. That may not be the case, I'm not claiming that I actually think it's bad for Ufh, it might be fine, and it's probably good if Ufh is happy with these beliefs and satisfied with the rest of Ufh's being.
Dream Sphere wrote:" Finally, I'm curious of how much time you tend to spend exploring these Deist ideas? Does that ever get in the way of you achieving other goals of yours? "
So, as a synopsis or TL:DR ;)

I didn't intend to be rude, and I don't mean any harm towards you, Unknownfromheaven. I think you're a good person and I like what you have to contribute to this forum. I now see how what I had said in that thread was quite careless at times. I'm sorry about that and I will continue to put serious effort into thinking more carefully about how I say things.

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