Still in the Closet!

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TheMuslimAtheist
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Still in the Closet!

Post by TheMuslimAtheist »

Hi everyone,

Let me introduce myself. I am an ignostic with a muslim background. It has been 5 or 6 years since my deconversion and I'm still struggling with it. Not on a intellectual level but on a personal one (friends, family...). As you may know, religion is very important in the muslim world and presenting yourself as an ignostic/Atheist is seriously looking for trouble ;)

I love discussing ideas about atheism, religion, ethics and world views. I really like TheVeganAtheist videos but I must say that the "Stupid Muslim Comments" video series has some slight misconceptions about islam and I would love to discuss them if you are interested, but I believe this is not the right topic for this.
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Red
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Re: Still in the Closet!

Post by Red »

Hello MuslimAtheist! Are you cconsidering a vegan diet?
Learning never exhausts the mind.
-Leonardo da Vinci
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Jebus
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Re: Still in the Closet!

Post by Jebus »

Welcome. Please let us know in which country you live and if you know any other doubting Muslims.
How to become vegan in 4.5 hours:
1.Watch Forks over Knives (Health)
2.Watch Cowspiracy (Environment)
3. Watch Earthlings (Ethics)
Congratulations, unless you are a complete idiot you are now a vegan.
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TheVeganAtheist
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Re: Still in the Closet!

Post by TheVeganAtheist »

Hi TheMuslimAtheist. Welcome to the forum. Id love to hear what you feel Ive gotten wrong, so please start up a thread in the correct section of the forum
Do you find the forum to be quiet and inactive?
- Do your part by engaging in new and old topics
- Don't wait for others to start NEW topics, post one yourself
- Invite family, friends or critics
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Red
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Re: Still in the Closet!

Post by Red »

TheVeganAtheist wrote:Hi TheMuslimAtheist. Welcome to the forum. Id love to hear what you feel Ive gotten wrong, so please start up a thread in the correct section of the forum
I think the misconception that Muslims worship Mohammed.
Learning never exhausts the mind.
-Leonardo da Vinci
TheMuslimAtheist
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Re: Still in the Closet!

Post by TheMuslimAtheist »

RedAppleGP wrote:Hello MuslimAtheist! Are you cconsidering a vegan diet?
Hello RedAppleGP. I am considering it for health reasons. I do agree and share the main arguments for Veganism, but I think that relying on indvidual initiatives would not give great results as far as the well being of animals are concerned. I think that there should be some sort of political decision to create new taxes and laws to specifically target the meat production industry as it is the case for the tobacco one in some countries. Hitting the animal farming industry where it hurts the most i.e. profitability by creating ethical laws to force the industrials to produce at much higher costs and thus reducing the demand on meat and accelerate the shifts of mentalities for a larger number of people.

Some people will never accept to give up tobacco and some will always defend the death penalty, but it's after publicly (politics) debating and adopting new laws that we will start turning the tides in my opinion.
TheMuslimAtheist
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Re: Still in the Closet!

Post by TheMuslimAtheist »

Jebus wrote:Welcome. Please let us know in which country you live and if you know any other doubting Muslims.
Hi Jebus. I live in Morocco and yes I know some skeptics there.
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Jebus
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Re: Still in the Closet!

Post by Jebus »

TheMuslimAtheist wrote:
Jebus wrote:Welcome. Please let us know in which country you live and if you know any other doubting Muslims.
Hi Jebus. I live in Morocco and yes I know some skeptics there.
How are apostates treated in Morocco?
How to become vegan in 4.5 hours:
1.Watch Forks over Knives (Health)
2.Watch Cowspiracy (Environment)
3. Watch Earthlings (Ethics)
Congratulations, unless you are a complete idiot you are now a vegan.
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EquALLity
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Re: Still in the Closet!

Post by EquALLity »

Hi, welcome. =D

But sorry about your situation. :/

If I could, I would get out of Morocco (if I lived there).

Have you heard of Kacem El Ghazzali, btw?
Jebus wrote: How are apostates treated in Morocco?
http://www.loc.gov/law/help/apostasy/index.php#morocco
The website wrote:Morocco does not impose the death penalty against apostates under the provisions of its Penal Code. However, in April 2013, the Supreme Council of Religious Scholars issued a religious decree (fatwa) that Moroccan Muslims who leave Islam must be sentenced to death.[53] Religious decrees are significant because Islam is the official state religion under article 3 of the Moroccan Constitution of 2011.[54] Additionally, under article 41 of the Constitution, the Supreme Council of Religious Scholars “is the sole instance enabled [habilitée] to comment [prononcer] on religious consultations (Fatwas).”[55]
^Not really black and white.

It looks like it doesn't kill them but technically could. I'm not sure.

If you're going to stay in Morocco TMA, you should keep quiet about your non-beliefs, I think. Stay safe!
"I am not a Marxist." -Karl Marx
TheMuslimAtheist
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Re: Still in the Closet!

Post by TheMuslimAtheist »

EquALLity wrote:Hi, welcome. =D

But sorry about your situation. :/

If I could, I would get out of Morocco (if I lived there).

Have you heard of Kacem El Ghazzali, btw?
Jebus wrote: How are apostates treated in Morocco?
http://www.loc.gov/law/help/apostasy/index.php#morocco
The website wrote:Morocco does not impose the death penalty against apostates under the provisions of its Penal Code. However, in April 2013, the Supreme Council of Religious Scholars issued a religious decree (fatwa) that Moroccan Muslims who leave Islam must be sentenced to death.[53] Religious decrees are significant because Islam is the official state religion under article 3 of the Moroccan Constitution of 2011.[54] Additionally, under article 41 of the Constitution, the Supreme Council of Religious Scholars “is the sole instance enabled [habilitée] to comment [prononcer] on religious consultations (Fatwas).”[55]
^Not really black and white.

It looks like it doesn't kill them but technically could. I'm not sure.

If you're going to stay in Morocco TMA, you should keep quiet about your non-beliefs, I think. Stay safe!
Hi EquALLity!

Thanks for your concern. Leaving the country where you lived for a long time is something difficult on many levels...I do hope that society will evolve to a more secular way of life but it is going to take time. There was a recent study/poll (I can't find the link) in which we ask people if religion and science contradicts each other on certain point which side will you pick. As you can imagine, the majority of people in the muslim world did choose to go with religion but the good news is that 'only' 55% of the polled people chose religion in Morocco. Compare it to over 90% in Yemen for example to understand why it is good news.

Yes, I've heard about Kacem El Ghazzali, he is a moroccan atheist and he got asylum in Switzerland if I remember correctly.

As for the apostasy, you're right it's not black and white. And even the so called fatwa you quote has led to heated political debates in Morocco. The fatwa doesn't mean anything on a political or legal level, because religion is used by politics and not the other way around. Technically there is no death penalty for apostasy in the law and freedom of religion is guaranteed by the newest constitution (Although is is stated that islam is the official religion of the state) and even on a practical level, people don't care what you think or do unless you start publicly proselytizing about it. In this case you will become a target of close minded, violent people and even the law/state can't protect you in that case. Of course the legal system and/or some angry violent guy will punish you if you publicly show behaviors that are illicit in islam like eating in ramadan (it's not a smart thing to do as you can tell...)
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