Hi, this looks intriguing

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SaintRegisMohawk
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Hi, this looks intriguing

Post by SaintRegisMohawk »

Hi Everyone,
I have lived all my life on an Indian Reservation. This is a very sheltered life. It is a closed community. If you are not a Tribal member, you can't live here. I am aware of all the variety of thinking and beliefs in the world. I'm ready to have exposure to some of that wonderful variety.

I'm 49 years old and up until a few years ago I never considered Atheism. It was always an un-relatable concept. Of course I had my doubts about a creator, but I never considered I was an atheist. I read "god is not great" by Christopher Hitchens. It struck me; I am an atheist (sort of).

I am currently trying to define in personal terms what is atheism, god, creator, spirituality, religion, faith, knowledge.

In pursuit of truth,
SRM
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TheVeganAtheist
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Re: Hi, this looks intriguing

Post by TheVeganAtheist »

Welcome to the forum SaintRegisMohawk.
You have indicated that you are a vegan. How did you become one? How is it to live in a reservation as one?
Do you find the forum to be quiet and inactive?
- Do your part by engaging in new and old topics
- Don't wait for others to start NEW topics, post one yourself
- Invite family, friends or critics
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SaintRegisMohawk
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Re: Hi, this looks intriguing

Post by SaintRegisMohawk »

Greetings,
I become a vegan about a year ago. I watched Joel Fuhrman on PBS, got "Eat to Live" book by him. It made sense so I did it. Was just going to commit for the six weeks he suggests. I kept on going.

Being a vegan on a reservation has the same difficulties as pretty much any rural community would. Its difficult to find some of the products that would be typical on a vegan diet. Thanks to the internet and a small community of socially conscious people I have figured out how to live the vegan lifestyle.
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Jebus
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Re: Hi, this looks intriguing

Post by Jebus »

Welcome! What was your religion before you became atheist?
How to become vegan in 4.5 hours:
1.Watch Forks over Knives (Health)
2.Watch Cowspiracy (Environment)
3. Watch Earthlings (Ethics)
Congratulations, unless you are a complete idiot you are now a vegan.
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brimstoneSalad
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Re: Hi, this looks intriguing

Post by brimstoneSalad »

Welcome SRM,

It's great that you're learning about the world, very commendable. And congratulations on going vegan, and breaking from religion!

I hope you'll enjoy it here.
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miniboes
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Re: Hi, this looks intriguing

Post by miniboes »

Welcome to the forums!
"I advocate infinite effort on behalf of very finite goals, for example correcting this guy's grammar."
- David Frum
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SaintRegisMohawk
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Re: Hi, this looks intriguing

Post by SaintRegisMohawk »

Thanks for the welcome.

The most exposure I got to religion was Catholic and Longhouse (Mohawk traditional beliefs). Recently the Longhouse tradition has made a resurgence, but I can't jump on the bandwagon.

I got a question. What exactly is a vegan and atheist? I am assuming these titles apply to me, but it seems some people have a definition different from mine. Maybe I'm a vegetarian and agnostic or secular humanist. I don't want to look stupid. It seems that: Atheism = Intelligence. I don't want to be the Sarah Palin of the Vegan Atheist forum.
Warm Regards
Dream Sphere
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Re: Hi, this looks intriguing

Post by Dream Sphere »

SaintRegisMohawk wrote:Thanks for the welcome.

The most exposure I got to religion was Catholic and Longhouse (Mohawk traditional beliefs). Recently the Longhouse tradition has made a resurgence, but I can't jump on the bandwagon.

I got a question. What exactly is a vegan and atheist? I am assuming these titles apply to me, but it seems some people have a definition different from mine. Maybe I'm a vegetarian and agnostic or secular humanist. I don't want to look stupid. It seems that: Atheism = Intelligence. I don't want to be the Sarah Palin of the Vegan Atheist forum.
Warm Regards
Hi, and welcome to the forum. I hope myself, plus the other forum goers here can all mutually benefit with you as well on the insights each member of this forum can provide to one another, and all come to a better understanding on these interesting, important issues of our time and use that to create a better life for each of us, and better world for every earthling.

I'll try to explain my knowledge of Veganism and Atheism to you, though it may help if someone else could also provide their definitions of them, as I think I may forget an aspect of either of them or may be mistaken or incorrect on something I say here.

Atheism is essentially non-Theism. This may be an incorrect assertion, but it's most basically the opposite of Theism.

Theism is the belief in a deity, or god etc. Examples of such like the Christian god, Vishnu, Thor, Zeus, etc.

Theism isn't restricted to believing in one god. Having a belief of one god is called Monotheism examples of which are the Abrahamic religions of Islam, Christianity, and Judaism, and likewise Polytheism is the belief in multiple gods like the ancient Greek/Roman religions as well as many types of Paganism etc.

So, Atheism is the non-belief in a god(s.) It's not necessarily disbelief, or certainty of the nonexistence of such a being.

For example; a baby, that hasn't been introduced to any concept of a god existing, and hasn't made up its own belief of such wouldn't technically disbelieve or doubt in the existence of a god, but they would still be an atheist because they wouldn't hold the belief of there being such a being in existence.

I can't explain more about the different stances people hold in regards to their belief/non-belief in a god, so I'll refer you to a thread on this forum which could give you a better idea of the different levels of gnosticism/agnosticism people have when it comes to theism. - http://theveganatheist.com/forum/viewto ... f=13&t=387

I will point out one thing though before I move on to Veganism.

Everyone, in my belief, is either an atheist or theist. Agnosticism isn't really on the same spectrum as atheism or theism, so it technically isn't a middle-ground between the two, but an agnostic atheist is such a thing, as an agnostic theist is too, and they would, very basically speaking, be less adamant in regards to their current stance on whether there to be a particular god or not in existence. Whereas gnostic atheists or theists are certain of their position being true. So, gnosticism and agnosticism, to me, are essentially just modifiers on either your stance of atheism or theism.



Vegans have a number of different reasons for being such, but I might not get into that in this post. Though, the reason of a person for choosing to place themselves under the Vegan "umbrella" would change how exactly they behave. So, I guess I will get into this actually.

Basically, on the whole side, though I may kinda be biasing this to be on the ethical side of veganism. Veganism wholly is about abstaining from as many things as you are capable of that cause pain, suffering, unnecessary exploitation of animals. Typically in the world, doing those things that cause animals pain, and suffering also have other bad side effects, like a negative effect on the environment, the consumption of meat/excretions being quite unhealthy, etc. So, some people may be vegan for all of those reason or only a selection of them. From what I've seen, most people who are vegan on this forum, including myself, are vegan for those three reasons, and probably some more I'm forgetting, but in assumption of others, and certainty of myself, the primary reason is the ethical side, which virtually bars all animal products from my consumption. So, very importantly, not only will I not eat any food derived from animals, I will neither, purchase or wear clothes, or buy other non-edible products which are made in a way that results in animals being abused. Whereas someone who is only a dietary vegan for health reasons, may not subscribe to the ethical side of veganism, and may feel fine wearing clothes made from an animals body.

If you care about the environmental aspects of veganism, and especially the ethical side, then it would be wise to abstain from as many animal products as you possibly can. Whereas a Vegan only concerned with health, and doesn't happen to consider the environmental effects of carnism possible posing a threat to their health, may only eat vegan, but still consume in the way of buying/making many animal products. I highly recommend going fully vegan if you're already a dietary vegan, but not completely vegan, because usually for most people the dietary part is the hardest, and the rest should be fairly easy to accomplish in comparison. (Though that depends on what you can be able to acquire to replace the non-vegan products if replacement is necessary, depending possibly on financial/geographical position.)



I hope I was of help.
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brimstoneSalad
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Re: Hi, this looks intriguing

Post by brimstoneSalad »

Dream Sphere wrote: Atheism is essentially non-Theism. This may be an incorrect assertion, but it's most basically the opposite of Theism.
Non-theism, yes. But this is not the opposite of theism. It's just the absence of theism (as you mentioned later).

Not all things necessarily have clear opposites, but if you put a name to it, the opposite of theism is more like anti-theism, or you could take the opposite of a particular theism, in a dualistic system, which would be worshiping the opposing deity.

Some atheists are also anti-theists, but that's a distinct thing. :)
Dream Sphere wrote: Theism is the belief in a deity, or god etc. Examples of such like the Christian god, Vishnu, Thor, Zeus, etc.
Probably not just belief in the existence of such beings, but regarding them as true gods, higher and of fundamentally more value than mortals, which is a form of deference and reverence; of supplication, subservience, and essentially worship.

Rejecting certain qualities of divinity brings the charge of atheism. Or at the very least, deism, or some other similar but not-strictly-theistic belief.

The trouble with defining atheism is in defining theism, and the trouble in defining theism is in defining theos (god).

In order to find a rigorous definition of atheism, you need a rigorous definition of theism and theos. Unfortunately, since those definitions are rife with contradictions, that's hard to do. The most consistent metric seem to be worship, which is why I usually refer to that element; it's a subjective one, but it's one that is generally useful.

I would say: If you don't worship (in some sense) any being(s) as your god(s), you're an atheist.
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