Greetings fellow humans! :)

[dwindley]

Hi all. i am David.
firstly i am not religious but i consider myself a very lax Buddhist/pagan. if anything music is the closet i come to a religious way of life.

i am not a vegan or a vegetarian. but i do not agree with the way animals are harvested. i just struggle to see what i can actuly do to change the system of greed that caues such pain in all. be it human, pig, tree etc.

i also don't see much difference in vegetables and animals.
regardless we are consuming another living thing to sustain ourselves.

if anything i would see a change in how we farm our food. responsibly.

who ever you are and what ever your thoughts on what I've said.

much love to you
for we are all just specs of sand upon the beach of space and time, a cog to a greater and lesser such as ourselves. just another brick in the wall.
but together... maybe just maybe.
we can do something beautiful that will inspire humanity.

[Jebus]

i also don't see much difference in vegetables and animals.

Welcome David. Are you not concerned about the inevitability of environmental damage as animals are used as food for humans? Are you not concerned about the emotional and physical pain suffered by the animals as they become food for humans? Does it not bother you that human beings are starving because animals give us such a low food output compared to plants?

[dwindley]

i always knew that the way animals are treated was bad. but i let ignorance get in the way.

i just watched the earthlings video which someone posted.
i have wept like never before.
for the sake of other sentient beings born and sold into slavery i feel i must take a stand and revise my world view.

for my fellow man also. as those with power treat their own species with the same disrespect as the rest of earth.

i am but one man. but here it seems i am in good company.

oh my soul, forget not what you have learnt this day.

[brimstoneSalad]

Hi David,

That's great that you're open minded, and willing to change your world view.

Have you decided to go vegetarian?


Actually, plants don't feel pain or suffer, because they are non-sentient. That's a popular misconception.
It's not based on science, though. See this article: http://skepdic.com/plants.html

They can be physically harmed, just as a car can be damaged or totaled, and they have evolutionary "purpose", but while they are adaptive they are not truly intelligent because they do not need intelligence (it's not useful for them).
Of course we should not unnecessarily damage plants, because they are an important part of our environment, but farming them for food is not cruel in the way that farming feeling sentient animals is.

Larger motile animals that have to navigate the environment and make crucial choices need intelligence to best do what they do. Because they need it, it's worth the cost (intelligence is very expensive, in terms of biological resources).

Also remember: Farming animals for food also destroys more plants in the process, through clear-cutting forests, and growing and harvesting even more plants to feed those animals than it would take to feed humans directly.
You have to grow MORE plants to feed cows, which then are killed to feed humans vs. if you just grow plants for humans. This is thermodynamics.

I'd be happy to explain more. It's a really important concept to understand.

As we go through life, it may be impossible to do zero harm, but we should all strive to do less harm.

[dwindley]

yes i have decided to walk a vegetarian path. vegan at this moment feels like to big of a step.
beyond the obvious of cutting animal based products out my diet.
what practical action is there to take?

thank you for the link on plants and sentience. i will be reading it later on.

[EquALLity]

yes i have decided to walk a vegetarian path

Awesome!

vegan at this moment feels like to big of a step.

For the record, it's really not hard. I live with carnist parents, and I've done it.
Maybe you could go try slowly finishing off the animal products that you currently have, and then just go freegan? Don't support the animal-product producing industries by only buying vegan things, but if your friend is eating a non-vegan food that they aren't going to finish anyway, eat that if you feel the impulse.

beyond the obvious of cutting animal based products out my diet.
what practical action is there to take?

Well, you could cut out soaps and shampoos etc. that are tested on animals or have animal ingredients.

[brimstoneSalad]

yes i have decided to walk a vegetarian path. vegan at this moment feels like to big of a step.
beyond the obvious of cutting animal based products out my diet.
what practical action is there to take?

That's great to hear.

Aside from cutting out animal products, make sure to add in healthful whole food plant products, particularly healthier whole grains like oats, and bean products, but also leafy greens.
Many people make the mistake of taking out meat and add in junk food instead, which isn't much better for your body, and it causes them to give up (eating junk food does make it difficult).

Try to branch out and learn about new foods you haven't experienced before.

[dwindley]

as i have also very recently quit smoking i don't want to overload myself with to many new life choices.
cutting out meat will be difficult as it is.
ill start with meat, eggs and dairy for now. and progress as i feel able.
though im sure not wearing animals will easy enough.

[EquALLity]

Congratulations on quitting smoking too. I hear that's really hard.