Hi! Привет! שלום!

[brimstoneSalad]

Hi TheAddict, welcome!

Awesome prison story, thanks for sharing!

Going to prison for pacifism is definitely a badge of honor, and I'm glad it got you to go vegan.

There's something to be said for "fake it 'til you make it", due to cognitive dissonance, how we behave has a profound effect on how we think and believe. It's true that for many people they just can not comprehend the problems with meat until they stop eating it, and which time their brains are given permission to process and understand the issue (even if they stop eating it for an entirely different reason).

Hope you enjoy it here!

[TheAddict]

A warm welcome to you. What an inspiring story, well done!
Obviously there are some differences between Sweden and Israel when it comes to refusing to use a weapon when drafted. They simply put me in a lower "employability" group which was fine by me, I never had to serve. I would also consider myself a pacifist.

Cool! Always fun to meet a fellow pacifist. They offered me the whole lower emplaybillity thing, but it included sometimes carrying a weapon to protect the base. I said no, because in my mind it was still me belonging to a body that does more harm than good. It's the equivalent of buying meat for friends when you're vegan, some people do it and there's nothing wrong with that, it's just that.. I wouldn't. Because, and again this is my own opinion, buying meat would be supporting the meat industry.

How's Sweden? I've always wanted to visit but never could (and now probably never will because of life plans).

Hi TheAddict, welcome!

Awesome prison story, thanks for sharing!

Going to prison for pacifism is definitely a badge of honor, and I'm glad it got you to go vegan.

There's something to be said for "fake it 'til you make it", due to cognitive dissonance, how we behave has a profound effect on how we think and believe. It's true that for many people they just can not comprehend the problems with meat until they stop eating it, and which time their brains are given permission to process and understand the issue (even if they stop eating it for an entirely different reason).

Hope you enjoy it here!

I guess you're right. Though, I believe deep down it was kind of intentional at least on some level. I think you're right, it's like being a third party in an argument, unless you're completely separated from the situation/habit, you cannot judge it subjectively. Having gone vegan for no other reason than to eat better in prison (though again, my friend may have had something to do with it), I looked at the facts versus my previous habits and excuses and came to the conclusion by myself. No slaughterhouse videos and no guilt.

It was later in Big Brother, that they showed slaughter videos, I was shocked. It was national TV, everyone saw it. Some inmates, who, by then became pretty close friends of mine (close in prison terms, we never spoke after) were actually talking about eating less meat, which is great. That's about when the whole nation started the vegan craze.

[TheVeganAtheist]

Welcome TheAddict. Happy to see a person with strong convictions. Was your experience in prison anything like what seen on tv/movies? How do you find being a vegan atheist in Israel? Are there options available? How are people's reactions to finding out (if they do)?

[TheAddict]

Welcome TheAddict. Happy to see a person with strong convictions. Was your experience in prison anything like what seen on tv/movies? How do you find being a vegan atheist in Israel? Are there options available? How are people's reactions to finding out (if they do)?

Hi, big fan!

The experience could be divided into two parts: Before I was in solitary (for refusing to eat) and after. I watched Orange Is The New Black before going to prison, and just as I got out, the second season came out. So I used the show to study up, and after being released I viewed the second season to compare experiences. Must say, they're pretty close from a social POV.

After I was released from solitary confinement, I was escorted to a special cell for non-smokers, because, I can't stress this enough about (at least Israeli prisons), they smell like cigarettes. People are bored and they have nothing to do, so they smoke. I've had a TV in my cell and three other guys. Some cells would have up to 8 people. I'd say that the conditions in Israeli prisons are pretty good.

Being an atheist in Israel is surprisingly easy. There are two majorities in Israel: religious Jews and people who are more secular. If you talk to the Jews they don't get offended, they are either very intrigued by your lack of faith or think you're very ignorant. Whereas the secular population just doesn't care. There are a lot of issues that need to be addressed (like the fact that atheists can't get married in Israel), but most people (religious or not) don't seem to care. I think this is because there are bigger issues at hand (peace in the middle east).

Being vegan on the other hand, is hard. There are tens of thousands of vegans in Israel and I got to meet quite a few at a recent festival, but the lack of direct activism is troubling. I think (I could be wrong) that per capita, there are more vegans in Israel than most places, especially in recent years. But there's a serious lack of vegan options. There are two big chains of vegan fast food, two brands of fake cheese (which are horrible) and one fully vegan faux meat product.

One big advantage to being in Israel, is that you don't have to worry about dairy in your foods. Because of strict Kosher laws, companies must categorize their foods into three categories: Halavi (has milk), Basari (has meat) and Parve (everything else). So when you go to the store, usually checking if it's Parve (written in a pretty noticeable font) is enough. You just have to check for honey and eggs.

[brimstoneSalad]

You just have to check for honey and eggs.

And gelatin, of course. But definitely, I can see how parve could make things easier.

I'm not sure if you have anything to compare it to, but I've found that Jews are both more understanding of and more sympathetic to vegans than Christians are (who will often think "what they don't know can't hurt them" and happily serve meat to vegans and lie about it), because they have their own dietary standards that they want respected. Same thing to a lesser degree with Muslims.

[Jebus]

Interesting. I find it strange that businesses have not yet adapted to the growing vegan population. Am I correct in assuming that most of your fellow vegans are also secular?

[TheAddict]

I've found that Jews are both more understanding of and more sympathetic to vegans than Christians are

I really don't have anything to compare, but I can tell you for a fact that I understand how veganism was adopted so easily here. Most of the Jews in Israel have to some degree experienced, either directly or indirectly, the effects of the Holocaust. Like Tal (the winner from Big Brother) said: "You can't ignore the suffering of beings, who are subject to the same inhumane practices as your grandparents were" (I'm paraphrasing). Most Jews have experienced this atrocity and ignoring the issue makes them no better than the millions of Germans and other Europeans who knew and didn't do anything to stop it.

Interesting. I find it strange that businesses have not yet adapted to the growing vegan population. Am I correct in assuming that most of your fellow vegans are also secular?

Most are, but I know a few vegan Jews. There's actually something new I learned about Judaism in prison: According to Abraham Isaac Kook (a very important figure in modern Judaism and a vegetarian), when Adam was in the garden of Eden, he didn't eat meat or consume dairy, and eating meat was allowed by God after Noah's flood, because there were no plants. According to his writings, world peace will only come when people stop eating meat, and that's when the second coming will occur.

Though, from my personal experience with debating Jews their usual response is something along the lines of "Yeah... But if I stop eating meat alone, nothing will happen. I'll stop when everyone stops".