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Volenta
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Hi there!

Post by Volenta » Tue May 20, 2014 7:01 pm

It has been 2 year now that I would call myself an atheist. Before that I really didn't care much about it, although I've been raised as a Christian. I didn't go to church, but had a Christian primary school. I did honesty believe in the Christian God, although I actually never said to people that I did because I was kind of ashamed of it (and rightly so).

Although I actually always have been pretty liberal on social issues (in contrast with my family), after becoming an outspoken atheist and after expanding my knowledge by reading books and watching debates, I gradually began to care more and more about things like intellectual freedom, freedom of speech, religion not being treated as something special, protection of minorities, acceptance of homosexuality – you probably know all the stuff. With this I inevitably became more antitheistic.

I'm also a vegetarian now for 2 months after being exposed to the rational arguments of VeganAtheist and Peter Singer* and thinking a lot about it. It became really clear to me when seeing it all in the light of evolution and taking notice of the amount of speciesism in society. Not eating meat is not that hard as imagined and I actually enjoy my meals a lot more now.

I do know I'm inconsistent though and should go fully vegan. I'm already drinking soy milk (actually like it better than cow milk) and don't eat eggs and cheese if I can. But I still do eat non-vegan desserts because the lack of a easy prepared vegan substitute, butter, and meat substitutes which contains eggs (although not much).

Volenta

*I agree with a lot of things Singer puts forward, love the fact he has no moral taboos.
Last edited by Volenta on Sat Oct 11, 2014 9:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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itsund3rmykilt
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Post by itsund3rmykilt » Tue May 20, 2014 7:12 pm

Just out of curiosity, what kind of substitutes do you find difficult? I'm really into desserts and junk food (I'm not always a very healthy person...), so I could probably help you out if you're having issues!

Also, welcome! =)

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Volenta
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Post by Volenta » Tue May 20, 2014 7:32 pm

itsund3rmykilt wrote:Just out of curiosity, what kind of substitutes do you find difficult? I'm really into desserts and junk food (I'm not always a very healthy person...), so I could probably help you out if you're having issues!

Also, welcome! =)
In the dessert section at my supermarket, there are really only milk-based desserts like yogurt (which I eat at the moment). I haven't seen a soy milk alternative or something.

As for the meat substitutes: once or twice in the week I love to eat a vegetarian burger or things of those kind. There is no alternative without eggs in it really. (and I don't want to go into the trouble of making something myself)

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itsund3rmykilt
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Post by itsund3rmykilt » Tue May 20, 2014 7:58 pm

I get that making meat can be a pain at times, but what about desserts? There are some really simple make-in-a-cup style dessert that don't always take a special ingredient. Most, if not all, of them are microwave friendly as well. There are puddings out there, but they really aren't easy to find. There are recipes that have you use silken tofu if I'm not mistaken, but I'm not sure I'd recommend them entirely.

I wish I could help you more when it comes to finding meat in your area, but since I live in the US, I honestly have no idea where to even start. Usually when it comes to a lot of the animal-free food products like that, you wind up having to go to a health food, whole food, or some other type of specialty store. I would say you could order them online, but I'm not sure you would be able to find anything within a reasonable price range, unfortunately.

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TheVeganAtheist
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Post by TheVeganAtheist » Tue May 20, 2014 9:42 pm

Welcome to the forum Volenta.
Happy to hear that my videos and Peter Singer have gotten you on the road to veganism. I have some issues with Peter Singer (if you have watched my Stupid Vegan Video #1, you will know about it). I would suggest that you read up on Prof. Gary L. Francione as well.

In regards to deserts, and finding good alternatives, try a local health food store as you will find many more options. You can find Vegan butter (Earth Balance is good), or you can just use oil.
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Volenta
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Post by Volenta » Wed May 21, 2014 11:25 am

TheVeganAtheist wrote:Welcome to the forum Volenta.
Happy to hear that my videos and Peter Singer have gotten you on the road to veganism. I have some issues with Peter Singer (if you have watched my Stupid Vegan Video #1, you will know about it). I would suggest that you read up on Prof. Gary L. Francione as well.
I do know about your issue with Singer about being a flexible vegan. And you're absolutely right about the point of making compromises, although I'm doing it myself and can see why Singer is saying it. I think that this is the difference for me between Singer and Francione: Singer is probably more realistic, even though it could be damaging to the movement.

Of course I do agree with Francione that veganism should be the moral baseline. But it feels like he is really against (promoting) welfare improvements, and I do see his points, but I think – being realistic – people aren't willing to go vegan so easily. I think that scientific progress like in vitro meat is eventually going to end the animal suffering, and in the road towards it, it should still be tried to minimize the suffering as much as possible.
I'm not really decided yet whether I would prefer the abolitionism approach, or how Francione is presenting it, in it's total picture because of the lack of (empirical) data supporting it (or I've missed something).

Another problem I have with Francione is how he basically says – and this also could well be my interpretation – that every kind of animal product consumption is equally bad. I don't think that has any rational basis. I think the amount suffering and other moral considerations can be placed in a continuum whereby ones suffering is actually worse than others. That doesn't mean that I think that exploitation that is lower on the continuum is thereby morally justifiable, but there are certainly less objections. I think would like to open a topic about this, since I'm not really sure about how wrong things like insect 'exploitation' are.

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Neptual
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Post by Neptual » Wed May 21, 2014 12:06 pm

Welcome to the forums! Regarding your issue on eating non-vegan desserts a good alternative to ice cream would be this recipe for a Caramel-cinnamon ice cream with black ginger bread bars. A recipe I found while searching for them sometime ago. Here is a link to where you can see the recipe and picture

http://theveganatheist.com/forum/viewto ... p=232#p232
She's beautiful...

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