Introduction

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King of the Infidels
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Introduction

Post by King of the Infidels »

Hey Guys! So anyways, this is my introduction to who I am:

My Religion: I am Satanist but LaVeyan Satanist not Theistic Satanist so I don't actually believe in Satan but is philosophy
My Eating Status: Meat Eater
My Favourite Colour: Cyan :mrgreen: the smiley is green not cyan but is close
My Favourite Books: The Harry Potter Series
My Favourite Film: Downfall
My Favourite Television Show: Breaking Bad
My Political Views: Liberal
My Sexuality: Bisexual
My Web Browser: Chrome
My Preferred Search Engine: Google
Okay so that is who I am don't do drugs stay in school
Last edited by King of the Infidels on Sat Sep 27, 2014 6:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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TheVeganAtheist
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Re: Introduction

Post by TheVeganAtheist »

Welcome to the forum. Ive always been curious about the appeal of Satanism. Why did you join up with that group?
Do you find the forum to be quiet and inactive?
- Do your part by engaging in new and old topics
- Don't wait for others to start NEW topics, post one yourself
- Invite family, friends or critics
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bobo0100
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Re: Introduction

Post by bobo0100 »

hello and welcome to the forum king. nice to see a satinest join the community. I look forword to descusing Anton's philosophy.

does your philosiphy differ from Anton's at all? Personally, there is much written in the satanic bible that I find at best disagreeable, such as moral ralitivity, this being the main reason I do not identify as satanic.

whats your view on welfare? From what ive seen anton seems to get too cought up in the drama, and sways from a "good life" in that area of his philosophy.

finaly sorcery, do you actualy think that the satanic rituals have any real effect, or stir of particals, other than possible, yet debatable, benifits to your mental helth?

I look forward to your patisipation in this forum.
vegan: to exclude—as far as is practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for any purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of humans, animals and the environment.
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brimstoneSalad
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Re: Introduction

Post by brimstoneSalad »

bobo0100 wrote:hello and welcome to the forum king. nice to see a satinest join the community. I look forword to descusing Anton's philosophy.
Calling it a philosophy is a stretch. It's more of a boy band.

LaVeyan Satanism is based on a poor/illiterate understanding of Ayn Rand's Objectivism mixed with some "magick" and random rebellious sounding rhetoric to appeal to angsty teens who are mad at god and/or their parents, which is arguably an improvement over Rand since Objectivism is pretty much the worst thing there is (yes, worse than Christian fundamentalism, and that's hard to say) and any deviation from it can only be less bad than the worst thing- however, it's pretty close so it doesn't get much credit for that (although his branding was clever- I'll give him that, he was a good business man).

Objectivism, in turn, isn't anything resembling a legitimate philosophy (and it's not taken seriously by anybody who cares about legitimate philosophy) and is a corruption of Kant's Deontology - something Rand never understood in her life, being a delusional lunatic (despite espousing something very similar, she hated Deontology, which would be hilarious if it wasn't so sad).

Kant - now we start to approach legitimate philosophy - did a lot of real and respectable work. Some of the work he did around deontology, and in attempt to explain his system was even good, but deontology itself, and namely the categorical imperative it relies on, was his biggest blunder (one he never corrected before his death).

Kant, to his credit, recognized some of the weakness when he said "if God didn't exist, it would be necessary to invent him"- because deontology has no grounding, no bearing, without a theistic lawgiver (although what he failed to understand is that even a theistic lawgiver doesn't provide that bearing when you ask the right questions).

To make a long history lesson short:

Deontology is logically false (the categorical imperative is inconsistent), and even its creator recognized that it required a god (although it still doesn't work with one, at least it's not as transparently wrong). Rand misunderstood deontology and tried to formulate her own version, which amounted to a joke in the philosophical world that to this day conservatives still don't understand but that nobody else takes seriously (like creationism is in biology). LaVey thought Randian Objectivism was pretty kewl and totally reasonable because he was an idiot, and decided to use it as a basis of his satanic-theme-park religion (nothing against satanic theme parks, that actually sounds cool, but Objectivism seriously poisons everything it touches).
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EquALLity
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Re: Introduction

Post by EquALLity »

Looked up objectivism.^

ob·jec·tiv·ism
/əbˈjektəˌvizəm/
noun
noun: objectivism
1.
the tendency to lay stress on what is external to or independent of the mind.
2.
Philosophy
the belief that certain things, especially moral truths, exist independently of human knowledge or perception of them.


Wait whaaa? How is this wrong?
Eating meat unnecessarily is wrong. Not everyone thinks this. But that doesn't mean it isn't true.

I guess I can't prove that eating meat unnecessarily is wrong. Is this where the trouble comes in?

This has been something I've been thinking about recently actually. I can't really prove that eating meat unnecessarily is wrong to people. But I also can't prove that unnecessary murder is wrong. I just feel like it is.

So what now?
"Eating meat is wrong because it hurts others."
"I don't care about others/don't regard animals as others."
"Oh. Ok. Just go on eating meat then. You don't care about animals, so it's completely moral to hurt them."

Unless I'm misinterpreting all of this. Maybe I had to read more about it? I skimmed over some other things but that's it.
Last edited by EquALLity on Mon Jan 19, 2015 8:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"I am not a Marxist." -Karl Marx
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Volenta
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Re: Introduction

Post by Volenta »

@EquALLity
Objectivism can refer to different things. First the one you're quoting from the dictionary, namely that things are true independent of human knowledge and perception (wiki). A concrete example of this is moral objectivism/realism (wiki), which is what you're describing when you're saying that the proposition 'eating meat is wrong' is a fact. You are right is accepting those positions.
And then there is the objectivism brimstoneSalad was talking about, namely the philosophical system of Ayn Rand (wiki).
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bobo0100
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Re: Introduction

Post by bobo0100 »

@Volenta
Thanks for the wiki's
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brimstoneSalad
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Re: Introduction

Post by brimstoneSalad »

EquALLity,
The first time I mentioned it I said Rand's Objectivism; shorthand being just "Objectivism" because not many people use the term since Ayn Rand drug it through an ocean of fecal matter.

Rand outright rejected moral truth, except her claim that it was evil to advocate moral behavior or criticize others for doing whatever they pleased.
"Do you like flaying cats alive then nailing them to a wall? That's your right and anybody who says you're evil for torturing defenseless animals for fun is the real evil one!!1" -Every Objectivist ever.

Today, no rational or decent person will claim to be an "Objectivist" for fear of being associated with Rand.

As Volenta mentioned, that's often called Moral Realism. You can also use the term Objective morality, but avoid "Objectivism" by itself unless you preface it as "Moral Objectivism", which fewer people will misunderstand, and which (unlike Rand's Objectivism) is a legitimate and correct philosophical view (when understood is the right, consequentialist sentience/preference-relative context).


Volenta: thanks for posting the links, I should have done that.
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bobo0100
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Re: Introduction

Post by bobo0100 »

Altho I have not read any more than the wikis on rands objectivism I don't feel that satinism is that easily dismissed. As you stated anton through in a lot of magic, altho his use of magic is a plesebo based one, as has been clarified by members of the church (or at least ex-member, antons daughter, i cant be bothered looking her up). I think brimstoneSalad & I are on the same page in regards to our dislike of satinism's teachings on moralitivity, however the book covers a wide range of topics. have you read it yourself brim?
vegan: to exclude—as far as is practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for any purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of humans, animals and the environment.
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brimstoneSalad
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Re: Introduction

Post by brimstoneSalad »

bobo0100 wrote:Altho I have not read any more than the wikis on rands objectivism I don't feel that satinism is that easily dismissed.
Satanism is a mix of things, the vast majority of which LaVey deeply misunderstood. Of course even a broken clock is right twice a day, but that's irrelevant to the moral matter, wherein he is fully wrong.

The issue is that Randian Objectivism makes up the central tenet of its morality, which is a core and fatal flaw. Objectivism is a poison; anything founded on it inherits its irrationality and wickedness.

I don't care how great a palace you think you built, if you've built it on mud, it's going to sink.

I'm not saying Satanism doesn't contain a few good ideas too -- I already said some elements were clever -- but so does the Bible, Islamic Hadith, etc. But they're all seemingly founded on false and morally bankrupt premises: Satanism perhaps more than any other, and more clearly (it doesn't benefit from the hazy interpretation of the others- where the "right" plausible interpretation of ambiguous or unclear older scripture might be enough to wriggle out of the worst of the issues).
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