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mkm
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Greetings!

Post by mkm »

Just wanted to say hi. You guys put screenchots of my commets from Youtube regarding Isaac's Name The Trait (Marcin Michalski), so I thought maybe I should come and introduce myself. I live in Poland, I am a mathematician and vegan from march 2017. For health reasons at the beginning, ethically later, partially through, ironically, Name The Trait. It's a shame, that Isaac's attitude shapes the discussion in that way, and I just couldn't ressist and add my 2 cents here and there. And here I am ;) I guess it's not a coincidence that many critics of NTT are mathematicians or related.
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brimstoneSalad
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Re: Greetings!

Post by brimstoneSalad »

Welcome mkm! I just looked it up again, I remember that comment thread, you had some very well spoken arguments. Did it go on for much longer than what was captured in the screenshot?

We've gotten more logicians and mathematicians here in the past weeks than probably over a year prior. It's not surprising that Isaac's failed "murkings" are sending all of his most intelligent and well educated viewers this way. :)
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Jebus
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Re: Greetings!

Post by Jebus »

Welcome mkm. Always great to see more vegan intellectuals who use logic and critical thinking. We need these to balance out all the vegan woo.
How to become vegan in 4.5 hours:
1.Watch Forks over Knives (Health)
2.Watch Cowspiracy (Environment)
3. Watch Earthlings (Ethics)
Congratulations, unless you are a complete idiot you are now a vegan.
mkm
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Re: Greetings!

Post by mkm »

brimstoneSalad wrote: Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:12 am Welcome mkm! I just looked it up again, I remember that comment thread, you had some very well spoken arguments. Did it go on for much longer than what was captured in the screenshot?
Maybe there is something with comments positioning, but I produced one more lengthy comment under Isaac's here

http://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3505&start=80#p34331

right after his response and before TheVeganStudent's:

https://imageshack.com/i/pnuGVJwzp

Or maybe it's kind of "shadow" ban?
brimstoneSalad wrote: Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:12 am We've gotten more logicians and mathematicians here in the past weeks than probably over a year prior. It's not surprising that Isaac's failed "murkings" are sending all of his most intelligent and well educated viewers this way. :)
Yeah, propably we are a little bit sensitive on this topic :)
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brimstoneSalad
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Re: Greetings!

Post by brimstoneSalad »

mkm wrote: Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:36 pm Maybe there is something with comments positioning, but I produced one more lengthy comment under Isaac's here

http://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3505&start=80#p34331

right after his response and before TheVeganStudent's:

https://imageshack.com/i/pnuGVJwzp

Or maybe it's kind of "shadow" ban?
Good comment. Sounds like you're talking about this issue:
http://philosophicalvegan.com/wiki/index.php/NameTheTrait#Invalid_Generalizing

It might be good to add in the point about his belief that "per se" is a magical tool that allows him to generalize anything he wants regardless of what the other party says or means. Thoughts?

If the comment is not there anymore, there's a possibility that he deleted it and blocked you, he's been blocking people for making good comments he doesn't want to answer... I'm not sure where I'd find the comments now.
Thanks for the screen shot.
mkm wrote: Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:36 pmYeah, propably we are a little bit sensitive on this topic :)
Most people seem to go with their feelings and do their best to ignore cognitive dissonance (or just react with anger), and don't in practice care if something is illogical (no matter how much they say they do). It takes time. Very likely others will realize these problems are real as they see this used more, now that they've been brought to light.

Have you read the Wiki entry? I'd love to hear your thoughts on it in general if you have time.
Feel free to sign up to edit if you have anything you'd like to add (I'll just have to authorize you for editing).
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DrSinger
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Re: Greetings!

Post by DrSinger »

Welcome!

Sounds like we are both in the same camp, I was somewhat of a fan of AY until this PV drama came up and I realised how wrong he was (I liked him in the roaming millennial debate), I never really gave the argument much thought beforehand, and I never watched the Friended vids until after the PV drama. It's ironic that what was supposed to be an embarrassment of PV that stands for all time will end up being an embarrassment for himself.

I'm also banned, meaning my comments don't show up to the public, I suspect that's the case for anyone who makes valid criticisms. I guess I'll have to create another account if I want to make more comments. Funnily enough I only made the DrSinger alias because I thought it would be funny in the context of comments on an unnatural vegan video.

Would be great to have you in the discussions about the article!
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Lightningman_42
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Re: Greetings!

Post by Lightningman_42 »

Welcome to the forum, mkm! Your insights will be of great interest to us.
Jebus wrote: Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:21 am Welcome mkm. Always great to see more vegan intellectuals who use logic and critical thinking. We need these to balance out all the vegan woo.
Yes! I second that.
"The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil but because of those who look on and do nothing."
-Albert Einstein
mkm
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Re: Greetings!

Post by mkm »

brimstoneSalad wrote: Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:08 pm Good comment. Sounds like you're talking about this issue:
http://philosophicalvegan.com/wiki/index.php/NameTheTrait#Invalid_Generalizing

It might be good to add in the point about his belief that "per se" is a magical tool that allows him to generalize anything he wants regardless of what the other party says or means. Thoughts?
That's exactly my point and these "per se" or "by itself" is worth mentioning.
brimstoneSalad wrote: Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:08 pm If the comment is not there anymore, there's a possibility that he deleted it and blocked you, he's been blocking people for making good comments he doesn't want to answer... I'm not sure where I'd find the comments now.
Thanks for the screen shot.
No problem, I didn't even know that YouTube allows shadow banning, it's really frustrating and disappointing.
brimstoneSalad wrote: Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:08 pm Have you read the Wiki entry? I'd love to hear your thoughts on it in general if you have time.
Feel free to sign up to edit if you have anything you'd like to add (I'll just have to authorize you for editing).
I read some parts of it, especially these considering formalization. I had very similar ideas for formulations of P1 and P2 in FOL, it's really cool to see it there already. I'll try to contribute a little bit here and there.

DrSinger

Almost the same here. That shadow banning thing is disturbing, especially considering that short search through web shows that Google, at least declaratively, does not allow it. So maybe making more accounts is not that bad idea :D
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brimstoneSalad
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Re: Greetings!

Post by brimstoneSalad »

mkm wrote: Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:36 am That's exactly my point and these "per se" or "by itself" is worth mentioning.
Can you recommend where you would add that, and the wording in this section?
http://philosophicalvegan.com/wiki/index.php/NameTheTrait#Invalid_Generalizing

Maybe you can contribute a paragraph, and let me know where you'd like it to go, I can add it in.
mkm wrote: Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:36 am I'll try to contribute a little bit here and there.
Thanks!
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