Long time lurker, finally coming to discuss

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Canastenard
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Long time lurker, finally coming to discuss

Post by Canastenard »

I am a vegan who's interested in ethics and science and wish for a better world driven by ethics about sentient human and non-humans being considered as ends in themselves. I believe it's important to use arguments based on evidence and rationality rather than emotion and intuition when defending any claim and thus I'm interested in critical thinking. And this forum seems quite welcoming to what I'm looking for in these regards. I'm in fact a long time lurker - and I'm happy to join.

First time I heard of veganism I thought it was a crazy thing, a sort of cult from people who hate animals and want personal purity. I understood the interest of going vegetarian but I had no idea why anyone would go further than that. But that was a long time ago. I went vegan more than one year ago, after a few months of considering it and reducing my animal product intake. I was aware of how bad industrial meat was for health and environment in addition to being hugely cruel to farmed animals. But I realized that dairy and "humane" meat were bad too and stopped eating them outside of social situations. I also learned how bad most egg farms are and eventually bought only organic eggs, because while there are good reasons why humane meat and dairy are not realistic, "humane" eggs are fine since it doesn't require killing animals or their offsprings and refusing them is just extremist mental gymnastics, right? I eventually learned how virtually all commercial eggs are terrible for the welfare of hens and stopped wanting to eat animal products altogether. I finally admitted it when I was struggling eating some beef - I literally couldn't eat it if I didn't have beans in my mouth too to mask the taste and texture of the meat - then didn't want to eat cheese either.

As I also became interested in losing weight about the same time I learned about the ethics of veganism I read a lot of things about nutrition especially after going vegan, however it was for me hard at the time to distinguish pseudoscience from legit things. For a small while I took the useless habit of drinking a glass of water with lemon juice before eating my breakfast because it was supposed to help digestion and detoxify the body and remove acidity from the blood. I also remember I once cooked kidney beans at low heat, inspired from the raw food mantra that food cooked at high temperature is less nutritious; it felt unpleasant after a few hours! I also was taking the methylcobalamin form of B12 for several months while supplementing the doses recommended for cyanocobalamin, because I thought the methyl form was "better recognized by the body" due to being "more natural", and developped pain in my left harm after a few months of veganism; it felt like I randomly got electrical shocks when I moved it, so it seemed likely to me that the cause was B12 deficiency as I knew such a deficiency could cause nerve damage.

I also read things online because I'm curious, and there was plenty of things I actually got confused about. Do plants have feelings? Are vaccines dangerous? Was the 9/11 tower collapse the result of a controlled demolition? What are the dangers of GMOs? (I was always told that they were unethical but the anti-GMO vulgarization always felt poor and incomplete to me) I felt a sort of cognitive dissonance, because I was on the fence on these things, but I knew deep inside me that truth isn't subjective and that one of these camps had to be wrong, and that truth felt hidden to me by how confusing it was to make my own opinion. Then I discovered the notion of scientific consensus, based on the accumulation of a lot of scientific knowledge that converge into one theory, and critical thinking in general. It made me have a more settled worldview, based on evidence and what's more likely to be true rather than my own ideology, and gave me the intellectual tools to identify good arguments from worthless fallacies. Especially the appeal to nature - I remember I felt a sort of cognitive dissonance at a time because having to supplement B12 felt "unnatural" but I eventually understood that there's nothing wrong about it, and I now hate this fallacy with a passion because of how wrong its premises are and also because I personally suffered from it - btw I changed to cyanocobalamin form for B12 and I really felt the difference.

I didn't enter that I'm an atheist or religious in my profile because while I believe God and the Holy Spirit as told by Christians, or any deity for that matter, are merely a cultural construct for which there's zero evidence that they actually exists, my mother is very religious and this had a huge impact on how I was raised, and because of that I still frequent other Christians in a religious context. But I don't publicly tell that I don't really take religion as anything more than a personal belief based on no evidence. Consider me as an atheist spy if you want :mrgreen:

Asides from that, I currently am in the waiting list of a software development training course. As someone who likes logic and computers it feels perfect for me, and before I start I'm trying to learn a bit so I can start my future training course with some knowledge already - for example I'm currently learning the C++ language, which so far confirmed my interest in computering, and once I know enough of it I'll try to learn another language that isn't object-oriented so I can learn a new way to program. As I also have some interest in biology as well maybe I could later evolve to have interdisciplinary knowledge and become a bioinformatician especially since it could potentially allow me to get a job that consists in developing vegan alternatives to animal products thanks to biotechnology - but we're talking about something very hypothetical and very far into the future here! (But maybe there's necessary animal experimentation to do such a biology training course in which case I'd be much less enthusiastic about it.)

And for anyone wondering why I have nettle as my avatar - it had three opposite leaves at each node instead of two which I'm sure is pretty rare, I found and photographed it myself. Most likely the result of a random genetic mutation :D

Oh, and by the way- I made a typo while writing my username. Could a mod fix that please? Change "Canasterard" into "Canastenard" (it's supposed to come from the word "canard" - "duck" in French)
Last edited by Canastenard on Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:25 am, edited 2 times in total.
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NonZeroSum
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Re: Long time lurker, finally coming to discuss

Post by NonZeroSum »

Canasterard wrote: Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:25 pm
Hallo! Very thorough introduction, very interesting read.. importance of arguments based on evidence and rationality, journey to veganism ending in revulsion of meat, freegan eggs, conspiracy and natural is best cognitive dissonance, undercover atheist, computer science degree with possible future in biotechnology, the hard question of human/animal testing for technological advancement for the researchers also, photography and genetic mutation... hard to think of question to ask after all the info provided aha. Glad to have you on board, look forward to your input in any threads that spark your interest :)
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Commissaris
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Re: Long time lurker, finally coming to discuss

Post by Commissaris »

Canastenard wrote: Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:25 pmAnd for anyone wondering why I have nettle as my avatar - it had three opposite leaves at each node instead of two which I'm sure is pretty rare, I found and photographed it myself.
I just assumed it was because you're a prickly character :lol: ! Nice to meet you!
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Jebus
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Re: Long time lurker, finally coming to discuss

Post by Jebus »

Wow. I didn't think lurkers like to write. Thanks for that detailed introduction.
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brimstoneSalad
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Re: Long time lurker, finally coming to discuss

Post by brimstoneSalad »

Hi Canastenard, your username has been changed (hopefully this doesn't cause any login trouble for you; make sure you update it if it's saved).

Great intro, welcome to the forum!
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PsYcHo
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Re: Long time lurker, finally coming to discuss

Post by PsYcHo »

Nice to meet you!

Glad you broke out of your lurker shell and joined the discussion.

I haven't tried them, but are nettles really similar to spinach? I prefer collard greens to most other leafy veggies, but I'll try anything once.

Welcome!
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Canastenard
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Re: Long time lurker, finally coming to discuss

Post by Canastenard »

PsYcHo wrote: Sun Oct 29, 2017 3:00 am I haven't tried them, but are nettles really similar to spinach? I prefer collard greens to most other leafy veggies, but I'll try anything once.
I don't remember the last time I ate spinach to be honest. However what I can say is that nettles are very soft and not crunchy at all. Of course make sure to prepare them so they don't hurt - if you don't perpare well enough and get unlucky you can end up being stung in your mouth. I wash them in hot water, then soak them in water with vinegar, them wash them in hot water again (also to remove any vinegar taste), and eventually cook them for about 15 minutes. You should also make sure they're not too watery to really appreciate them; the last time I steamed them and I did the error of not wringing them out a little to remove some water, so it felt like it could have had a better mouth feel if it was less watery.

The reason I eat them is because they grow not far from my home and basically give me free vegetables (a food group I try to eat generously because of how healthy they are) and also the fact they're an amazing source of calcium.
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brimstoneSalad
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Re: Long time lurker, finally coming to discuss

Post by brimstoneSalad »

Canastenard wrote: Sun Oct 29, 2017 4:34 pm The reason I eat them is because they grow not far from my home and basically give me free vegetables (a food group I try to eat generously because of how healthy they are) and also the fact they're an amazing source of calcium.
Foraging is great, probably the most environmentally friendly food you could possibly eat (unless you're driving a long way to get it).
Do you forage for anything else near your home, or just nettles?
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Canastenard
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Re: Long time lurker, finally coming to discuss

Post by Canastenard »

There are a lot of walnuts trees that grow where I live, and last year I foraged a huge amount of walnuts. However this year they haven't been productive so I didn't forage any walnut this year - apparently the trees are subject to a phenomenon knows as alternate bearing: http://homeguides.sfgate.com/walnut-trees-nuts-year-43771.html

To be fair I have checked only a few trees compared to the many that grow in my city, but if those haven't given nuts this year even though they were productive last year then I'm not expecting the rest to be productive either. Hopefully it's actually the alternate bearing and not a walnut-devastating illness - I would hate to not have the chance to forage walnuts ever again.

I'm instead foraging hazelnuts this year, although not in my city. But atm I have to move to another city once per week for personal reasons that have nothing to do with foraging, it's just that I'm taking advantage of me having to move to forage hazelnuts in this city where there's an amazing amount of them. There also are hazelnuts in my city but in a much lower amount.

Oh, and there's a pear tree not far from my home too - I used to forage pears from there last year, I haven't checked this year if the trees has been productive this new year. I should do!
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PsYcHo
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Re: Long time lurker, finally coming to discuss

Post by PsYcHo »

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind.

Collard greens are a favorite of mine, and while traditionally cooked with pork fat, using vegetable oil works well too (salt and pepper to taste)

They shrink up quite a bit though, so if you try them cook at least three times what seems adequate.

Awesome that you forage regularly. I'd like to look into that more. The closest I've came is pulling wild onions/chives from my yard to use as seasonings.

....and I love pear butter. My mother used to make it, and it goes great on toast. Basically boil a bunch of pears and add sugar, but soooo good..
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