Hello people of the forums.
My username, as you can see, is Cyclone. I'm not really comfortable with mentioning my real name yet. Anyways, I live I'm 16 years old and live in Finland. I came an (agnostic) atheist about 1,5 years ago. I don't remember if that's exactly what I want to describe myself as, as I personally believe that God does not exist, but I can not also prove that he does not. So if anyone comes to me with enough hard, scientific proof and research that a higher being does infact exist, then I will change my beliefs. Enough about religion (for now atleast . The other big thing people like to talk about here is diets. I am a meat-eater myself, but I DO NOT despise other types of diets. I am open to any new information about vegan and other diets, as i have only 2 people that I know are vegans and their approaches are so different to the subject. I like to talk openmindedly about opinions and views on different subjects and so on. I also am eager to learn new things and facts and opinions etc. Well not gona make this longer, if you have anything to ask or discuss, send me a message
--Cyclone
P.S. My quote will change from time to time whenever I realize something new or you guys inform me about something new.
P.S.S. If anyone recognizes my avatar and proves it, I applaud to you
Introducing myself to the forums
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- Cyclone
- Newbie
- Posts: 17
- Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 2:13 pm
- Diet: Meat-Eater
Introducing myself to the forums
Last edited by Cyclone on Wed Jun 01, 2016 2:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.
- brimstoneSalad
- neither stone nor salad
- Posts: 10273
- Joined: Wed May 28, 2014 9:20 am
- Diet: Vegan
Re: Introducing myself to the forums
Hi Cyclone,
Do you agree that we should not cause unnecessary harm to other sentient beings? If not, do you reject morality, or define it in a religious way instead of based on sentience (e.g. based on "souls" which some theists say only humans have)?
If you do agree morality is based on avoiding harm to sentient beings, do you agree that the animals you eat are (or were before killed) sentient? Do you agree that confining and slaughtering animals is harmful to them? And do you agree that people can be healthy without eating animals?
That's good to hear, although it's not just about diet: it's about ethics.Cyclone wrote: I DO NOT despise other types of diets. I am open to any new information about vegan and other diets,
Do you agree that we should not cause unnecessary harm to other sentient beings? If not, do you reject morality, or define it in a religious way instead of based on sentience (e.g. based on "souls" which some theists say only humans have)?
If you do agree morality is based on avoiding harm to sentient beings, do you agree that the animals you eat are (or were before killed) sentient? Do you agree that confining and slaughtering animals is harmful to them? And do you agree that people can be healthy without eating animals?
- Cyclone
- Newbie
- Posts: 17
- Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 2:13 pm
- Diet: Meat-Eater
Re: Introducing myself to the forums
Yes, I'm sorry for my confusion.
I do agree on not causing unnecessary harm to other beings, and no I do not reject mortality, I do believe that every living being has so kind of morality. I do understand that the animals were beings and yes, I do agree that the way that the animals are treated in facilities is very bad. And yes, I agree that we can live healthy without animals.
I've actually tried to move to eating more "vege-foods" (soy, beans etc.) The biggest problem I think I have with this subject is the "well it just happens" mindset about animal-eating that I was raised with. Only like a couple of years ago(when i met my vege-friends) did I start to really think about it... but it's just really hard for me to leave meat out of my diet... I hope you understand.
I do agree on not causing unnecessary harm to other beings, and no I do not reject mortality, I do believe that every living being has so kind of morality. I do understand that the animals were beings and yes, I do agree that the way that the animals are treated in facilities is very bad. And yes, I agree that we can live healthy without animals.
I've actually tried to move to eating more "vege-foods" (soy, beans etc.) The biggest problem I think I have with this subject is the "well it just happens" mindset about animal-eating that I was raised with. Only like a couple of years ago(when i met my vege-friends) did I start to really think about it... but it's just really hard for me to leave meat out of my diet... I hope you understand.
- brimstoneSalad
- neither stone nor salad
- Posts: 10273
- Joined: Wed May 28, 2014 9:20 am
- Diet: Vegan
Re: Introducing myself to the forums
Of course, that's the same way it was with slavery, with subjugation of women, etc. All social change and moral progress in society means working on overcoming that mindset.Cyclone wrote:The biggest problem I think I have with this subject is the "well it just happens" mindset about animal-eating that I was raised with.
Have you watched some documentaries on animal agriculture? Maybe they could inspire you.
I understand, it's definitely hard. For some people, it's like quitting smoking. We can have some serious "eating addictions" with diet; habits are hard to break.Cyclone wrote:Only like a couple of years ago(when i met my vege-friends) did I start to really think about it... but it's just really hard for me to leave meat out of my diet... I hope you understand.
Have you tried cutting down on meat, and using alternatives where you can? Sometimes step-by-step is the best way to make change. We'd be happy to give you suggestions. Maybe in a couple years you could go vegetarian.
- Cyclone
- Newbie
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- Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 2:13 pm
- Diet: Meat-Eater
Re: Introducing myself to the forums
brimstoneSalad wrote:Of course, that's the same way it was with slavery, with subjugation of women, etc. All social change and moral progress in society means working on overcoming that mindset.Cyclone wrote:The biggest problem I think I have with this subject is the "well it just happens" mindset about animal-eating that I was raised with.
Have you watched some documentaries on animal agriculture? Maybe they could inspire you.
I understand, it's definitely hard. For some people, it's like quitting smoking. We can have some serious "eating addictions" with diet; habits are hard to break.Cyclone wrote:Only like a couple of years ago(when i met my vege-friends) did I start to really think about it... but it's just really hard for me to leave meat out of my diet... I hope you understand.
Have you tried cutting down on meat, and using alternatives where you can? Sometimes step-by-step is the best way to make change. We'd be happy to give you suggestions. Maybe in a couple years you could go vegetarian.
Last edited by Cyclone on Tue May 31, 2016 4:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Cyclone
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- Posts: 17
- Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 2:13 pm
- Diet: Meat-Eater
Re: Introducing myself to the forums
Wups sorry didnt know how to use the quote function
sorry
sorry
- brimstoneSalad
- neither stone nor salad
- Posts: 10273
- Joined: Wed May 28, 2014 9:20 am
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Re: Introducing myself to the forums
That's OK. Just type your response after the [/quote] tag at the end. You can also break up the quote by adding more closing and opening tags. it uses the square brackets [] with "quote" inside like this: [quote] and you use a / before "quote" to close the tag.
Here's a handy guide: https://www.phpbb.com/community/faq.php?mode=bbcode#f2r0
Here's a handy guide: https://www.phpbb.com/community/faq.php?mode=bbcode#f2r0
- Cyclone
- Newbie
- Posts: 17
- Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 2:13 pm
- Diet: Meat-Eater
Re: Introducing myself to the forums
As I was saying: I have never had any intention of going full vegan, instead replacing meat now and then with soy etc. Also reducing red meat and replacing it with chicken and fish.
And about you saying I should watch documentaries: I have seen, I have received their message and I definetly do not agree with quite a lot of thing they do in there. But it's just that "well it happens" and "we just have to accept it" mentalities that I developed as I was younger(my parents didn't force me to eat meat but it was a norm and maybe kinda expected). My parents would support me if I went vegan.
And about you saying I should watch documentaries: I have seen, I have received their message and I definetly do not agree with quite a lot of thing they do in there. But it's just that "well it happens" and "we just have to accept it" mentalities that I developed as I was younger(my parents didn't force me to eat meat but it was a norm and maybe kinda expected). My parents would support me if I went vegan.
- brimstoneSalad
- neither stone nor salad
- Posts: 10273
- Joined: Wed May 28, 2014 9:20 am
- Diet: Vegan
Re: Introducing myself to the forums
Maybe you're confusing personal responsibility and the state of the world.Cyclone wrote:But it's just that "well it happens" and "we just have to accept it" mentalities that I developed as I was younger(my parents didn't force me to eat meat but it was a norm and maybe kinda expected). My parents would support me if I went vegan.
We can't control others' actions, of course: others will continue to make bad choices, just as others will continue to rape, murder, pollute, etc.
But just because others are doing it, does that mean we should do it too?
We can control our own actions, and if we choose not to do these things (like not eat meat), then there will be less suffering in the world. We can stop the suffering that we cause, and that's the extent of what we can control.
Does that make sense?
Should a smoker say "I never have any intention to quit smoking, just replacing a cigarette every now and then with gum"?Cyclone wrote:As I was saying: I have never had any intention of going full vegan, instead replacing meat now and then with soy etc. Also reducing red meat and replacing it with chicken and fish.
Of course this is a good way to start. But what if you smoke one fewer cigarette each week? Why not continue to reduce? Why say "this is enough reduction, I don't want to quit"?
If you reduce slowly, then it won't bother you, and eventually you can quit. You will find you loose your taste for meat, and learn to enjoy other foods (human taste always changes). I just want to say, please don't rule it out. Maybe some day you can imagine going vegetarian if you keep working on reducing. It could just take some time.
About chickens, have you seen this? (don't worry, it's not graphic, it's a nice video):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25RcDO2RdZQ
- Cyclone
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- Posts: 17
- Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 2:13 pm
- Diet: Meat-Eater
Re: Introducing myself to the forums
I must say it's been quite long since I've talked about this in such depth with someone.
Back to the point: I know that by changing meat for other products I would help (atleast to some extent) but the problem that I've tlaked about with other people also is that the meat will be produced even if i don't buy it, so you cant really talk about me about ending suffering that has already been done.
And yes, I yet again understand your point about changing slowly, and I know that human taste does change overtime... But what if I simply don't want to go full vegan? Are my opinions and choices bothering you somehow? :c(no, that was not passsive-aggressive, just asking)
Back to the point: I know that by changing meat for other products I would help (atleast to some extent) but the problem that I've tlaked about with other people also is that the meat will be produced even if i don't buy it, so you cant really talk about me about ending suffering that has already been done.
And yes, I yet again understand your point about changing slowly, and I know that human taste does change overtime... But what if I simply don't want to go full vegan? Are my opinions and choices bothering you somehow? :c(no, that was not passsive-aggressive, just asking)