Introducing myself to the forums

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Cyclone
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Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 2:13 pm
Diet: Meat-Eater

Introducing myself to the forums

Post by Cyclone »

Hello people of the forums.
My username, as you can see, is Cyclone. I'm not really comfortable with mentioning my real name yet. Anyways, I live I'm 16 years old and live in Finland. I came an (agnostic) atheist about 1,5 years ago. I don't remember if that's exactly what I want to describe myself as, as I personally believe that God does not exist, but I can not also prove that he does not. So if anyone comes to me with enough hard, scientific proof and research that a higher being does infact exist, then I will change my beliefs. Enough about religion (for now atleast ;). The other big thing people like to talk about here is diets. I am a meat-eater myself, but I DO NOT despise other types of diets. I am open to any new information about vegan and other diets, as i have only 2 people that I know are vegans and their approaches are so different to the subject. I like to talk openmindedly about opinions and views on different subjects and so on. I also am eager to learn new things and facts and opinions etc. Well not gona make this longer, if you have anything to ask or discuss, send me a message :)

--Cyclone

P.S. My quote will change from time to time whenever I realize something new or you guys inform me about something new.
P.S.S. If anyone recognizes my avatar and proves it, I applaud to you ;)
Last edited by Cyclone on Wed Jun 01, 2016 2:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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brimstoneSalad
neither stone nor salad
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Re: Introducing myself to the forums

Post by brimstoneSalad »

Hi Cyclone,
Cyclone wrote: I DO NOT despise other types of diets. I am open to any new information about vegan and other diets,
That's good to hear, although it's not just about diet: it's about ethics.

Do you agree that we should not cause unnecessary harm to other sentient beings? If not, do you reject morality, or define it in a religious way instead of based on sentience (e.g. based on "souls" which some theists say only humans have)?

If you do agree morality is based on avoiding harm to sentient beings, do you agree that the animals you eat are (or were before killed) sentient? Do you agree that confining and slaughtering animals is harmful to them? And do you agree that people can be healthy without eating animals?
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Cyclone
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Diet: Meat-Eater

Re: Introducing myself to the forums

Post by Cyclone »

Yes, I'm sorry for my confusion.
I do agree on not causing unnecessary harm to other beings, and no I do not reject mortality, I do believe that every living being has so kind of morality. I do understand that the animals were beings and yes, I do agree that the way that the animals are treated in facilities is very bad. And yes, I agree that we can live healthy without animals.
I've actually tried to move to eating more "vege-foods" (soy, beans etc.) The biggest problem I think I have with this subject is the "well it just happens" mindset about animal-eating that I was raised with. Only like a couple of years ago(when i met my vege-friends) did I start to really think about it... but it's just really hard for me to leave meat out of my diet... I hope you understand.
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brimstoneSalad
neither stone nor salad
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Re: Introducing myself to the forums

Post by brimstoneSalad »

Cyclone wrote:The biggest problem I think I have with this subject is the "well it just happens" mindset about animal-eating that I was raised with.
Of course, that's the same way it was with slavery, with subjugation of women, etc. All social change and moral progress in society means working on overcoming that mindset.

Have you watched some documentaries on animal agriculture? Maybe they could inspire you.
Cyclone wrote:Only like a couple of years ago(when i met my vege-friends) did I start to really think about it... but it's just really hard for me to leave meat out of my diet... I hope you understand.
I understand, it's definitely hard. For some people, it's like quitting smoking. We can have some serious "eating addictions" with diet; habits are hard to break.

Have you tried cutting down on meat, and using alternatives where you can? Sometimes step-by-step is the best way to make change. We'd be happy to give you suggestions. Maybe in a couple years you could go vegetarian. :)
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Cyclone
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Diet: Meat-Eater

Re: Introducing myself to the forums

Post by Cyclone »

brimstoneSalad wrote:
Cyclone wrote:The biggest problem I think I have with this subject is the "well it just happens" mindset about animal-eating that I was raised with.
Of course, that's the same way it was with slavery, with subjugation of women, etc. All social change and moral progress in society means working on overcoming that mindset.

Have you watched some documentaries on animal agriculture? Maybe they could inspire you.
Cyclone wrote:Only like a couple of years ago(when i met my vege-friends) did I start to really think about it... but it's just really hard for me to leave meat out of my diet... I hope you understand.
I understand, it's definitely hard. For some people, it's like quitting smoking. We can have some serious "eating addictions" with diet; habits are hard to break.

Have you tried cutting down on meat, and using alternatives where you can? Sometimes step-by-step is the best way to make change. We'd be happy to give you suggestions. Maybe in a couple years you could go vegetarian. :)
Last edited by Cyclone on Tue May 31, 2016 4:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Cyclone
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Re: Introducing myself to the forums

Post by Cyclone »

Wups sorry didnt know how to use the quote function :P
sorry
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brimstoneSalad
neither stone nor salad
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Re: Introducing myself to the forums

Post by brimstoneSalad »

That's OK. Just type your response after the [/quote] tag at the end. You can also break up the quote by adding more closing and opening tags. it uses the square brackets [] with "quote" inside like this: [quote] and you use a / before "quote" to close the tag.

Here's a handy guide: https://www.phpbb.com/community/faq.php?mode=bbcode#f2r0
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Cyclone
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Re: Introducing myself to the forums

Post by Cyclone »

As I was saying: I have never had any intention of going full vegan, instead replacing meat now and then with soy etc. Also reducing red meat and replacing it with chicken and fish.
And about you saying I should watch documentaries: I have seen, I have received their message and I definetly do not agree with quite a lot of thing they do in there. But it's just that "well it happens" and "we just have to accept it" mentalities that I developed as I was younger(my parents didn't force me to eat meat but it was a norm and maybe kinda expected). My parents would support me if I went vegan.
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brimstoneSalad
neither stone nor salad
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Re: Introducing myself to the forums

Post by brimstoneSalad »

Cyclone wrote:But it's just that "well it happens" and "we just have to accept it" mentalities that I developed as I was younger(my parents didn't force me to eat meat but it was a norm and maybe kinda expected). My parents would support me if I went vegan.
Maybe you're confusing personal responsibility and the state of the world.

We can't control others' actions, of course: others will continue to make bad choices, just as others will continue to rape, murder, pollute, etc.
But just because others are doing it, does that mean we should do it too?

We can control our own actions, and if we choose not to do these things (like not eat meat), then there will be less suffering in the world. We can stop the suffering that we cause, and that's the extent of what we can control.

Does that make sense?
Cyclone wrote:As I was saying: I have never had any intention of going full vegan, instead replacing meat now and then with soy etc. Also reducing red meat and replacing it with chicken and fish.
Should a smoker say "I never have any intention to quit smoking, just replacing a cigarette every now and then with gum"?
Of course this is a good way to start. But what if you smoke one fewer cigarette each week? Why not continue to reduce? Why say "this is enough reduction, I don't want to quit"?

If you reduce slowly, then it won't bother you, and eventually you can quit. You will find you loose your taste for meat, and learn to enjoy other foods (human taste always changes). I just want to say, please don't rule it out. Maybe some day you can imagine going vegetarian if you keep working on reducing. It could just take some time.

About chickens, have you seen this? (don't worry, it's not graphic, it's a nice video):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25RcDO2RdZQ
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Cyclone
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Re: Introducing myself to the forums

Post by Cyclone »

I must say it's been quite long since I've talked about this in such depth with someone.

Back to the point: I know that by changing meat for other products I would help (atleast to some extent) but the problem that I've tlaked about with other people also is that the meat will be produced even if i don't buy it, so you cant really talk about me about ending suffering that has already been done.
And yes, I yet again understand your point about changing slowly, and I know that human taste does change overtime... But what if I simply don't want to go full vegan? Are my opinions and choices bothering you somehow? :c(no, that was not passsive-aggressive, just asking)
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