Francis from Costa Rica in Central America

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perezsfrancis
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Francis from Costa Rica in Central America

Post by perezsfrancis » Sun May 29, 2016 8:32 pm

Hola, hello. My name is Francis. I did Veganuary this year, and then Vegan challenge, and then I have stayed vegan, learning, making mistakes, etc.

I am now making Kombucha, and next is learning about other things I can make.

I have been visiting vegan markets since January. Up to now, the hardest thing to avoid is cheese, it is everywhere and melted or grated.

Anyway here I am hope to learn more and help as much as I can.

Francis

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Post by brimstoneSalad » Sun May 29, 2016 11:05 pm

Welcome Francis! Congratulations, was it a difficult transition for you?

Careful about Kombucha, some of the strains of bacteria can produce toxins. If you want to ferment, you might want to buy probiotics so you start with known strains -- you can keep the pills in your fridge, and just open them and use a little as a fresh starter each time.

Nut cheese is a pretty awesome thing to make at home, have you thought about trying that?

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Post by ma3xiu1 » Mon May 30, 2016 4:54 am

If you watch Gary Yourofsky's Best Speech Ever on YouTube, it should cure you of any desire to eat cheese or other dairy products ever again :-)

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Post by Cirion Spellbinder » Tue May 31, 2016 12:10 am

Welcome Francis. It's great that you've begun to transition.
How have others responded to your change?

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Post by Cirion Spellbinder » Tue May 31, 2016 12:11 am

ma3xiu1 wrote:If you watch Gary Yourofsky's Best Speech Ever on YouTube, it should cure you of any desire to eat cheese or other dairy products ever again :-)
Are you a fan of Yourofsky's deontological approach?

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Post by ma3xiu1 » Tue May 31, 2016 12:52 am

Cirion Spellbinder wrote: Are you a fan of Yourofsky's deontological approach?
Do you consider Yourofsky's approach to be deontological? May I ask how you are defining that term?

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Post by Cirion Spellbinder » Tue May 31, 2016 2:23 am

ma3xiu1 wrote:Do you consider Yourofsky's approach to be deontological?
Yes, though I must note that my judgement is based upon my trust in the general consensus of the forum and not my own analysis. What resources do you think are the most important to consider when making this judgement?
ma3xiu1 wrote:May I ask how you are defining that term?
Deontological, referring to deontology- the field of ethics which judges the morality of an action based on its adherence to a list of rules.

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Post by ma3xiu1 » Tue May 31, 2016 3:03 am

Cirion Spellbinder wrote: Yes, though I must note that my judgement is based upon my trust in the general consensus of the forum and not my own analysis. What resources do you think are the most important to consider when making this judgement?
...
Deontological, referring to deontology- the field of ethics which judges the morality of an action based on its adherence to a list of rules.
Ok, just wanted to make sure you weren't using the term in some weird way. In that case, I would challenge the claim that Yourofsky's approach is deontological -- at least from his "Best Speech Ever" presentation, his primary concern with people eating animal products seems to stem from the suffering it causes the animals. He also argues that eating animal products can have detrimental effects on one's health. This to me seems more of a consequentialist philosophy, rather than declaring that eating animal products is wrong simply because of some rule.

Having said that, I am only new to the vegan scene, and have not studied Yourofsky's materials extensively. I have heard him mention that he believes in God. If he believes that eating animal products is wrong simply because the bible commands us not to, then perhaps you can make an argument that Yourofsky's ethics are deontologically based. However, given his passion in fighting against animal cruelty, I believe his ethics are more consequentialist/utilitarian.

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Post by Cirion Spellbinder » Tue May 31, 2016 12:27 pm

I made a massive error. For whatever reason I had thought that Gary Yourofsky was Gary Francione.
I apologize for the inconvenience. :shock:
ma3xiu1 wrote:Ok, just wanted to make sure you weren't using the term in some weird way. In that case, I would challenge the claim that Yourofsky's approach is deontological -- at least from his "Best Speech Ever" presentation, his primary concern with people eating animal products seems to stem from the suffering it causes the animals. He also argues that eating animal products can have detrimental effects on one's health. This to me seems more of a consequentialist philosophy, rather than declaring that eating animal products is wrong simply because of some rule.
I will check it out in my spare time. Thanks!
ma3xiu1 wrote:have not studied Yourofsky's materials extensively.
Neither have I, but I will definitely be looking into him.
ma3xiu1 wrote:I have heard him mention that he believes in God. If he believes that eating animal products is wrong simply because the bible commands us not to, then perhaps you can make an argument that Yourofsky's ethics are deontologically based. However, given his passion in fighting against animal cruelty, I believe his ethics are more consequentialist/utilitarian.
Interesting. Perhaps he advocates for both.

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Post by brimstoneSalad » Tue May 31, 2016 3:56 pm

Cirion Spellbinder wrote:I made a massive error. For whatever reason I had thought that Gary Yourofsky was Gary Francione.
There's a pretty radical difference in terms of their beliefs, but it's fair to say the way they talk is rather similar; they can both come off very arrogant and dogmatic, lacking any nuance or sense of compromise.

Francione is more consistent, but that also means more consistently wrong. His only redeeming quality is probably being against illegal activity like destruction of property, arson, etc. which Yourofsky is more sympathetic to (Yourofsky is more along the lines of Steve Best).

Here's a good example of Yourofsky's dogmatism: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cl-8Xl7qrhE
He refuses to recognize a meaningful moral gradient across sentient beings -- it's either you are, therefore you have certain rights and/or should be included in the circle of compassion, or you aren't.

He also has some nutty beliefs about GMOs and the supernatural, but otherwise he's mostly consequentialist.

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