Greetings!

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NindriIndri
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Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:15 am
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Diet: Vegan

Greetings!

Post by NindriIndri » Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:36 am

Hi,

I'm NindriIndri. I have been vegan for the past 5 years and a (selective) omnivore before that. I live in a small European country with my bf, who has been vegetarian for the past 2 years and is now leaning towards veganism, and our cat. I joined this community to get help arguing for ethical veganism and also, to expand my horizons and learn new things. :)

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NonZeroSum
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Diet: Vegan
Location: North Wales, UK

Re: Greetings!

Post by NonZeroSum » Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:01 pm

NindriIndri wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:36 am
Hi,

I'm NindriIndri. I have been vegan for the past 5 years and a (selective) omnivore before that. I live in a small European country with my bf, who has been vegetarian for the past 2 years and is now leaning towards veganism, and our cat. I joined this community to get help arguing for ethical veganism and also, to expand my horizons and learn new things. :)
Welcomes! Happy to have you :) What was the impetus to go vegan those many moons ago?

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Jebus
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Re: Greetings!

Post by Jebus » Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:27 pm

Hi NindriIndri, you came to the right place. Is your cat on a vegan diet?
How to become vegan in 4.5 hours:
1.Watch Forks over Knives (Health)
2.Watch Cowspiracy (Environment)
3. Watch Earthlings (Ethics)
Congratulations, unless you are a complete idiot you are now a vegan.

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brimstoneSalad
neither stone nor salad
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Re: Greetings!

Post by brimstoneSalad » Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:29 pm

Welcome! I'm glad you posted in intro, I hope you'll like it here.

NindriIndri
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Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:15 am
Religion: Other
Diet: Vegan

Re: Greetings!

Post by NindriIndri » Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:04 am

Hi everybody,

thank you for the warm welcome. I had always felt guilty eating animals but never imagined I could actually live without them (talk about brainwashing...). When I was a teenager and heard about animal testing, I decided to avoid tested products but I sort of reasoned with myself that killing animals for human subsistence was OK. Then about 5 five years ago, I heard about the 30-day easy vegan challenge from a friend, watched Earthlings, cried a lot and decided it's only fair to give it a try. I survived of course and have been vegan since. I told my bf he can do what he wants but that I will only cook vegan at home. He had some health issues (gout) and then he decided to ditch meat. He eats vegetarian food at work (mostly out of convenience, no vegan options nearby) and vegan at home. He has some way to go, but he's getting there. Our cat is not vegan though. I feel a bit conflicted about that but I also feel conflicted about pushing my way of eating onto an obligate carnivore - he would have killed animals outside had he been an outdoor cat. We did try feeding him vegan cat food a few times but he wouldn't touch it, maybe because we adopted him as an older cat and he had been fed meat all his life. I try to buy quality food (and no beef etc.) as much as budget allows. We also feed 7 strays (neutered) that live on our street, especially in the winter.

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brimstoneSalad
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Re: Greetings!

Post by brimstoneSalad » Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:16 am

NindriIndri wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:04 am
I try to buy quality food (and no beef etc.) as much as budget allows.
A bit on cat food...

"Quality" food is precisely what you don't want in terms of animal suffering, though: if it's not made from byproduct, that means animals are being raised and killed specifically to feed your cat. And if it's poultry, we're talking potentially hundreds of birds being raised, suffering, and dying in captivity.

The best option for a cat who won't eat vegan is food based on byproducts. It's supplemented with the nutrients that are lost in processing, so it's perfectly suitable for feline nutrition, and while it does unfortunately subsidize the industry, no animals were killed specifically for your cat.

I hope you'll consider it.

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Jebus
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Re: Greetings!

Post by Jebus » Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:04 am

NindriIndri wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:04 am
We did try feeding him vegan cat food a few times but he wouldn't touch it,
Fish is probably the lesser of the evils and its strong taste and smell means that you don't have to put much in the food. I would try mixing a small amount of fish in the vegan food to see if he eats it.
How to become vegan in 4.5 hours:
1.Watch Forks over Knives (Health)
2.Watch Cowspiracy (Environment)
3. Watch Earthlings (Ethics)
Congratulations, unless you are a complete idiot you are now a vegan.

NindriIndri
Newbie
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:15 am
Religion: Other
Diet: Vegan

Re: Greetings!

Post by NindriIndri » Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:34 am

I'm sorry if I've upset anyone with the cat thing - I really did try to find the best option. By "quality" food I meant not Whiskas and the like (the cheapest) because he had skin allergies and diarrhea and had to be put on medication which I find counterproductive to the cause and his health. My vet friend (also vegan) told me how many cats and dogs fed on the cheapest food develop tumors and demand expensive and painful treatment or euthanasia, so I tried to find something better but still from byproducts (so it's not "fancy" food). I don't know what's wrong with him, but he is the exception to the rule and doesn't eat fish or entrails in the raw form (we tried exactly what Jebus proposed with vegan food, no go. The strays only picked out the fish and I think the hedgehogs ate the rest). I was considering going to the local butcher to see if they have any leftovers but I'm pretty sure they wouldn't give them to me for free, so I'm not sure which is better - support an actual butcher or buy dry food. The vegans I discussed this with were not enthusiastic about going to the butcher so we are where we are. What do you guys think?

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brimstoneSalad
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Re: Greetings!

Post by brimstoneSalad » Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:41 pm

The finickiness of cats is one reason I recommend people get dogs instead; dogs aren't so picky and are pretty easy to feed vegan. Dogs are also more intelligent and emotional than cats are (closer to humans on the insect to human spectrum of sentience), so all things considered it's better to rescue a dog from a shelter than a cat. When you rescue a cat instead, a dog is likely to be euthanized in its place.
NindriIndri wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:34 am
The strays only picked out the fish and I think the hedgehogs ate the rest).
Do you feel you that have a moral obligation to feed the stray cats? If so, why not an obligation to feed all of the wild animals in your area?

It seems like they would hunt instead, which may be less harmful than farming. When we don't know, it seems better to err on the side of non-intervention.
If they're turning their noses up at what you give them, they probably have another source of food (probably another neighbor).

I think it's fair enough to put out some vegan food, but if they really don't want it they can't be that hungry.
NindriIndri wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:34 am
I was considering going to the local butcher to see if they have any leftovers but I'm pretty sure they wouldn't give them to me for free, so I'm not sure which is better - support an actual butcher or buy dry food. The vegans I discussed this with were not enthusiastic about going to the butcher so we are where we are. What do you guys think?
I think a butcher will give you waste, like "sawdust", for free if you say it's to make food for cats. It would have gone in the trash otherwise. You may have to ask a few of them, but one will probably agree and save some for you if you're nice. I wouldn't use the "v" word.

NindriIndri
Newbie
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:15 am
Religion: Other
Diet: Vegan

Re: Greetings!

Post by NindriIndri » Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:44 am

We actually got this cat from a relative who moved out of the country so it was either the shelter or us for our cat and we decided to adopt him. I had previously rescued two dogs (one found at a park, the other from a shelter). As for the strays, we didn't feed them in the beginning when we moved here but the first winter I noticed that the cats were extremely skinny (ribs, spine and hips showing) with bald patches in their fur and two of them were pregnant at the time. Only one came back with the kitten, the other must have died. In addition to the 7 cats that came to us regularly, I counted 14 more strays in a street that counts 5 houses and then called the shelter to neuter them. They had to put down a few due to sickness and old age and returned the remaining ones. There are a lot more strays in the surrounding suburban area and I think the competition for resources is fierce since there are no fields here, just houses and gardens and they are still hunting because we don't have any rodents eating up the veggies in our garden. I only feed them once a day when I do (so not the amount recommended on the box). As for the other wild animals, there are a few hedgehogs around who mainly like the fresh water I put out for them and I think they also eat the cat food if there is any left but I don't provide anything specifically for them. As for the moral part - my thinking is that cats were domesticated by people and I think it's unfair that they be left to their own devices just because people ditch them once they've grown tired of them. I didn't "bait" the strays with food, they came to us and meowed like crazy. They are too wild to be adopted (they start panicking in confined spaces) and I don't think there's anything wrong with supplementing food for the neutered ones when their regular food is harder to come by. I'll think about getting byproducts from the butcher and yes, I'll definitely skip the V word. :)

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