EquALLity wrote:
I was saying that, in general, society considers women who have a lot of casual sex sluts, and that men don't have to deal with that stigma. In fact, like you go on to say, they are praised for it.
Women don't have to deal with it either, if they don't talk about it.
Regardless of how society views the bragging about sexual exploits by men and women, that changes nothing about the fact that women have the privilege of being able to have sex pretty much any time, anywhere, with very nearly whoever they want, if they want to.
Men are much more limited in this capacity -- unless they're rapists.
KIP suggested that women can not do this because of stigma, which just isn't true. You don't dismiss one claim of privilege by demonstrating another completely different claim of privilege on the other side.
Stigma is both optional (for sharing the fact), and a matter of personal psychology. It doesn't make it impossible for women to go around picking up men wherever they want IF they want to have lots of sex.
EquALLity wrote:
But why should people have to hide stuff about themselves if they do not want to?
Should I have to hide information about the color and texture of my bowel movements? Why can't I go around talking about my poops all day?
Well, I can, but people will think I'm a freak.
We abstain from talking about many things every day, because it's just not normal social behavior.
EquALLity wrote:
And why is it ok that there stigma specifically for women when they don't keep it private, but not men, even though they are doing the exact same thing?
Women can gossip about people, talk about shoes, hair, makeup, and nobody thinks anything of it. If a man wants to have these kinds of conversations, he'll be stigmatized for it.
Gender roles have defined certain things that are acceptable practice to discuss for men and women, and they vary in different contexts.
I explicitly noted that it is a matter of male privilege that they can brag about their sexual exploits and be congratulated for them.
This does not in any way nullify the female privilege of easier access to sex. It relates only to women's inability to talk about it openly after without stigma.
This is not something I have denied, I am only denying that it nullified the former fact of female privilege.
Like I've said many times, both sides have different privileges. It basically sucks for everybody, in different ways.
EquALLity wrote:
"Society says I'm a slut if I have casual sex, and I do. So I'm a slut, and bad?"
That's up to her, if she believes what society says.
Society says atheists are bad, do you feel like a bad person? Or do you roll your eyes, and consider people who say that to be idiots?
And what exactly do you propose be done about it? Should we do away with freedom of speech, and not allow people to share ill informed beliefs?
EquALLity wrote:"Society says it's bad for me to have casual sex, so I'm going to restrict myself even though I don't want to, or else I'll be bad."
That's actually a good thing for her. Casual sex
is bad
for you. It's not a healthy practice, even with a condom (although condoms make it much safer than it would otherwise be). It drastically increases rates of cancer, for one.
Men should be judged more harshly for being sluts, and everybody should use safer sexual practices.
EquALLity wrote:And it seems reasonable to say that it's a burden to feel that you can't talk about doing something because there is a stigma around doing it.
I feel no burden for being unable to talk about my bowel movements openly, in public. Maybe I'm really proud of them too, but that's a private matter.
Why should I deserve to be allowed to discuss them without suffering the consequences of social stigma due to it?
Men are also not completely without stigma for talking about their sexual exploits; there are many environments where this is inappropriate.
But I already said, several times, that YES, being able to brag about sexual exploits and be congratulated is a male privilege. That doesn't negate the still very real female privilege of having much easier access to sex if it is desired.
These are minor issues.
And as I think Kyron mentioned, males are stigmatized for not having enough sex in those same circles, which is far MORE harmful than being stigmatized for having it, since this pressure increases their risk for STDs, and other undesirable direct consequences.
-Female privilege: NOT being pressured into having dangerously large amounts of casual sex, or be socially stigmatized
EquALLity wrote:She shouldn't have to keep it to herself if she doesn't want to when it isn't harmful to anybody.
She doesn't have to. There's no law against it. And I don't have to keep details about my bowel movements to myself either. But there are social consequences to sharing those details.
EquALLity wrote:Also, if she gets 'outed' by her partners somehow (like you go on to mention), she's going to get a lot of backlash.
Yes, but this can be largely avoided. Also, it's illegal to slander somebody like that. Sex is a private matter.
EquALLity wrote:Ok, they both have the choice, but when men choose to do that they are praised, and when women choose to do it they are deemed 'sluts'.
Which I listed as a male privilege. This is unrelated to female ability to have much easier access to sex anywhere/anytime/etc.
EquALLity wrote:But it's a harmful double standard.
Physically harmful?
Harmful to men, yes.
Encouraging and judging men based on their conquests is also harmful to women, because it pressured men to rape them. As if they don't have enough biological sex drive as it is.
EquALLity wrote:I'm talking about if both partners are ok with talking about it, not really gossip.
That may be fine, if neither of them care about it, and they aren't bothering people who don't want to hear it with TMI.
EquALLity wrote:Why, though? What exactly is the issue with it?
Talking about your sexual activity in public may make people uncomfortable, and for no practical reason (since it's not an important topic of conversation).
Why would I need to describe my poop to people? How is this information useful to them?
Talking about your sexual activity in public may also make others feel insecure, or inadequate -- and they shouldn't be made to feel that way, or pressured to have sex themselves.
What good does it do to brag publicly about sexual exploits?
When you bag some really hot guy or girl, you may want to brag about it. You may want to show your friends pictures, and talk about who it was. How does this help them? How does this enrich their lives, and provide them with a positive influence, or affirmation of their worth as human beings?
It doesn't. It helps you, and improves your social stature in whatever group has identified this as an important element of social hierarchy.
And it doesn't really help anybody to be using these kinds of metrics of social value -- it just hurts everybody by increasing proliferation of disease, rape, unwanted pregnancies, etc. and makes other people feel shitty.