Bernie Sanders- Does He Have A Chance?

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Re: Bernie Sanders- Does He Have A Chance?

Post by Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz » Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:25 pm

Red wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:19 pm
Now that I think of it, voting for Johnson would make Trump less likely to win. Johnson would just steal votes from Trump as Stein did from Hillary, due to the political spectrums.
No it wouldn't, because your elections, as you are well aware, aren't determined by who wins the most votes. Here is the impact of Stein stealing votes from Hillary: https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautifu ... y_clinton/

Your state is guaranteed to turn blue. You have already said that if you voted for Trump, it wouldn't mean anything. If Bernie or Trump won that election, your vote for Johnson would not even have the remotest of impact on that. Neither would your vote for Trump. However, your vote for Johnson would have an impact on whether he can participate in the TV debates, which brings us to our next point:
So what?
I've already explained what. You will increase the vote share of a third party, potentially getting it to the Presidential debates, and potentially helping it to knock down either racist Trump or anti-nuclear Bernie into the dustbin of history, and potentially getting it to the Presidency where it can reverse the racist policies of Trump, and get more of America on nuclear.

Again, this is only potential. But your vote for Trump would have potential to accomplish absolutely nothing.
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Post by Red » Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:28 pm

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:25 pm
No it wouldn't, because your elections, as you are well aware, aren't determined by who wins the most votes. Here is the impact of Stein stealing votes from Hillary: https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautifu ... y_clinton/
Never said that it would swing an election, but see how she would've won a few more electoral votes?
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:25 pm
I've already explained what. You will increase the vote share of a third party, potentially getting it to the Presidential debates, and potentially helping it to knock down either racist Trump or anti-nuclear Bernie into the dustbin of history, and potentially getting it to the Presidency where it can reverse the racist policies of Trump, and get more of America on nuclear.

Again, this is only potential. But your vote for Trump would have potential to accomplish absolutely nothing.
I wouldn't want to steal votes from Trump, as much as I hate him.
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Post by Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz » Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:32 pm

Red wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:28 pm
Never said that it would swing an election, but see how she would've won a few more electoral votes?
So under the first circumstance, she loses the election. In the second, she loses the election... with a few more electoral votes. Very significant difference.
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:25 pm
I wouldn't want to steal votes from Trump, as much as I hate him.
You wouldn't be stealing votes from him, because your vote for Johnson would have absolutely no impact on whether Bernie or Trump wins the Presidency.

Ultimately, what is to be gained from voting for Trump, and what is to be lost by voting for Johnson?
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Post by Red » Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:37 pm

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:32 pm
So under the first circumstance, she loses the election. In the second, she loses the election... with a few more electoral votes. Very significant difference.
That's not the point; The point is that it is taking votes away from the best candidate (It's one of the main factors as to why Hillary lost) is voting against your own interests.
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:32 pm
You wouldn't be stealing votes from him, because your vote for Johnson would have absolutely no impact on whether Bernie or Trump wins the Presidency.
So then why vote for Johnson?
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:32 pm
Ultimately, what is to be gained from voting for Trump, and what is to be lost by voting for Johnson?
Not much by living in New York. If I lived in Ohio though, I would gain the chance of having a President who's good on Nuclear by voting for Trump, and would lose that chance by voting for Johnson.
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Post by Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz » Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:41 pm

Red wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:37 pm
That's not the point; The point is that it is taking votes away from the best candidate (It's one of the main factors as to why Hillary lost) is voting against your own interests
How is voting for Johnson voting against your own interests when it has no impact on whether those interests are advanced? Also, how is it one of the main factors as to why Hillary lost?
So then why vote for Johnson?
Because it has an impact besides whether Bernie or Trump wins the Presidency which I've already explained to you.
Not much by living in New York. If I lived in Ohio though, I would gain the chance of having a President who's good on Nuclear by voting for Trump, and would lose that chance by voting for Johnson.
You don't live in Ohio though so it's pointless to bring that up. What do you, as a New Yorker, have do gain from voting for Trump?
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Post by Red » Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:46 pm

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:41 pm
How is voting for Johnson voting against your own interests when it has no impact on whether those interests are advanced? Also, how is it one of the main factors as to why Hillary lost?
Because it takes votes away from Trump. People who vote Libertarian would vote for Republicans if they didn't have the third party.
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:41 pm
Because it has an impact besides whether Bernie or Trump wins the Presidency which I've already explained to you.
But you said it has no impact so which is it?
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:41 pm
You don't live in Ohio though so it's pointless to bring that up. What do you, as a New Yorker, have do gain from voting for Trump?
What do I have to gain from voting for Johnson or Bernie?

Honestly though, why do you want me to vote for Johnson so badly? Is it because you hate Trump?
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Post by Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz » Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:55 pm

Red wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:46 pm
Because it takes votes away from Trump. People who vote Libertarian would vote for Republicans if they didn't have the third party.
It doesn't matter who it takes votes away from if that person had no chance of winning in that area in the first place.
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:41 pm
Because it has an impact besides whether Bernie or Trump wins the Presidency which I've already explained to you.
But you said it has no impact so which is it?
No I didn't. This is what I said:
You wouldn't be stealing votes from him, because your vote for Johnson would have absolutely no impact on whether Bernie or Trump wins the Presidency.
A vote for Johnson would have no impact on whether Bernie or Trump wins the Presidency. A vote for Johnson would have an impact besides whether Bernie or Trump wins the Presidency. These are not contradictory statements.
What do I have to gain from voting for Johnson or Bernie?
I don't expect you to vote for Bernie because you've made it clear that his anti-nuclear policies are too big of an issue for you. And I've already explained what you have to gain from voting for Johnson.
Honestly though, why do you want me to vote for Johnson so badly? Is it because you hate Trump?
No, but if it was, that would not negate the reasons I put forward for why you should vote for Johnson, so it's a pointless question.
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Post by Red » Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:43 pm

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:55 pm
It doesn't matter who it takes votes away from if that person had no chance of winning in that area in the first place.
What about in the areas where it does matter?
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:55 pm
No I didn't. This is what I said:
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:55 pm
A vote for Johnson would have no impact on whether Bernie or Trump wins the Presidency. A vote for Johnson would have an impact besides whether Bernie or Trump wins the Presidency. These are not contradictory statements.
You have to make more clear what you are saying, it's pretty ambiguous.
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:55 pm
I don't expect you to vote for Bernie because you've made it clear that his anti-nuclear policies are too big of an issue for you. And I've already explained what you have to gain from voting for Johnson.
Which is?
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:55 pm

No, but if it was, that would not negate the reasons I put forward for why you should vote for Johnson, so it's a pointless question.
Which are?

I'm not sure if you understand how Johnson getting on the TV debates would be worse.
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Post by Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz » Thu Feb 21, 2019 3:43 am

Red wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:43 pm
What about in the areas where it does matter?
If you lived in one of those areas I could understand why you might vote for Trump. I wouldn't agree with it, but I could understand it.
You have to make more clear what you are saying, it's pretty ambiguous.
How? I stated that a vote for Johnson would have no impact on whether Bernie or Trump wins the Presidency. How could that mean that I don't think it would have any impact whatsoever?
Which is?
Getting him on the TV debates.
I'm not sure if you understand how Johnson getting on the TV debates would be worse.
How could I understand it when you haven't given a single reason why?
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Post by Red » Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:41 am

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 3:43 am

How? I stated that a vote for Johnson would have no impact on whether Bernie or Trump wins the Presidency. How could that mean that I don't think it would have any impact whatsoever?
???
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 3:43 am

How could I understand it when you haven't given a single reason why?
It takes votes away from Trump.

I know in the UK third parties work differently, but the most usage third parties have in America aside from making a statement is just stealing votes from either the Democrats or Republicans. Like Perot was more conservative, right? Therefore he took more votes from Bush, giving Clinton a major advantage.
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