General philosophy message board for Discussion and debate on other philosophical issues not directly related to veganism. Metaphysics, religion, theist vs. atheist debates, politics, general science discussion, etc.
Who would you consider the best and worst theist apologists? What I mean by best/worst is in terms of the following criteria:
knowledge of arguments
strength of arguments
presentation skills
debating skills
your subjective impression (i.e. person X just rubs be the wrong way, or person X left me with a unbruised forehead)
My most disliked apologists:
Sye Ten Bruggencate ( he makes my blood boil)
Ken Ham
Ray Comfort (aka Banana man)
Hamza Tzortzis
William Lane Craig
Most liked apologist: (or least disliked):
can't remember the guy's name, but he was an earlier co-host with Emery Wong on the podcast A Christian and an Atheist
another guy who's name escapes me, but he was on an episode of Dogma Debate podcast
* sorry for the vagueness.... if i can find the names I will edit this post.
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To me what constitutes as an apologist is someone who atleast has had a book defending god or has spoken in a discussion/debate defending or talking about god. I also only include apologists that are alive (So no Lewis or Moreland)
Good apologists:
- Rowan Williams
- John Lennox
- John Haldane
- William Lane Craig (As much as i dislike his attitude, he is a sharp debater)
Okay apologists:
- Alister McGrath
- Shmuley Boteach
- David Wolpe
- Hugh Ross
- Francis Collins
- Alvin Platinga
Bad apologists:
- Tariq Ramadan
- Dinesh D'souza
- Bill Donohue
- Hamza Tzortzis
- William Dembski
- David Berlinski
- Frank Turek
- Peter Hitchens
Worst apologists:
- Ken Ham
- Ray Comfort
- Sye Ten Bruggencate
- Ravi Zacharias
- Eric Hovind
- Jason Lisle
- Kirk Cameron
“I am in favor of animal rights as well as human rights. That is the way of a whole human being.”
― Abraham Lincoln
Ken Ham makes my Soul light in a righeous angry fire bent on killing everything around me out of spite for no rational reason.
He makes me THAT angry.
Did you know he recently called an end to all space programs because the bible?
I know OF william craig but not much about him and ray comfort I know of and I VERY much dislike that guy.
Same thing with Kirk Cameron.
The only good Apologist i seen is John lennox.
Of course I don't keep track of names much.
We are all born Atheists, everyone of us. We are born without the Shackles of theism arresting our minds. It is not until we are poisoned by the fears and delusions of others that we become trapped in the psychopathic dream world of theism.
I must admit I donk know the name of many apologists. The only ones I've seen so far that I know who is are
Most disliked
Ray Comfort-I judge him harshly dew to his massive following, regardless of how good he actually is at apologetics.
Mid position
Ken Ham- as the man who set up the creationist museum he has to be up here, maybe that fact puts him on a par with Ray, but here he'll stay.
Least disliked apologist
William Lane Craig- whenever dress using this man I start be admitting 2 things:
1] I disagree with his arguments.
2] his ability to use and demonstrate logic to the best of its potential, is admirable for a debater. His logic wilding skills make him appear much smarter than he actually is.
vegan: to exclude—as far as is practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for any purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of humans, animals and the environment.
TheVeganAtheist wrote:Who would you consider the best and worst theist apologists? What I mean by best/worst is in terms of the following criteria:
knowledge of arguments
strength of arguments
presentation skills
debating skills
your subjective impression (i.e. person X just rubs be the wrong way, or person X left me with a unbruised forehead)
My most disliked apologists:
Sye Ten Bruggencate ( he makes my blood boil)
Ken Ham
Ray Comfort (aka Banana man)
Hamza Tzortzis
William Lane Craig
Most liked apologist: (or least disliked):
can't remember the guy's name, but he was an earlier co-host with Emery Wong on the podcast A Christian and an Atheist
another guy who's name escapes me, but he was on an episode of Dogma Debate podcast
* sorry for the vagueness.... if i can find the names I will edit this post.
Not sure if you have seen this, Since sye makes your blood boil.
We are all born Atheists, everyone of us. We are born without the Shackles of theism arresting our minds. It is not until we are poisoned by the fears and delusions of others that we become trapped in the psychopathic dream world of theism.
Can't understand why some of you think John Lennox is a good apologists. He clearly doesn't have much knowledge on the subject of evolution. And some claims he makes while being a 'scientist' is kind of damaging the imago of science. I mean claims like: without God, we're just primates that can't know truth. Also hate the arrogance in his anthropocentric world view.
On William Lane Craig I have mixed feelings. On the the one hand I've seen him put forward very logically flawed propositions, making very wrong assumptions. But on the other hand he's very sharp and good at spotting flaws and fallacies made by opponents. I also do like his debating style, always making his case very clear and understandable.
Volenta wrote:
On William Lane Craig I have mixed feelings. On the the one hand I've seen him put forward very logically flawed propositions, making very wrong assumptions. But on the other hand he's very sharp and good at spotting flaws and fallacies made by opponents. I also do like his debating style, always making his case very clear and understandable.
Have you watched the 3 debates between Craig and Kraus? I would highly recommend them.
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TheVeganAtheist wrote:Have you watched the 3 debates between Craig and Kraus? I would highly recommend them.
I did (well, at least 2 of them, not sure if I watched the third one), and there I saw Craig make some very flawed propositions. And it's weird, because he understand the subject and logic very well, otherwise he wouldn't be able to point out flaws that opponents make. Therefore it seems likely to me that he knows he's lying in his own propositions.
Although I love the work of Krauss very much and even love watching him debate, he can get very arrogant and upset sometimes and interrupts his opponents a lot. Craig did not do a really bad job in those debates (besides his flawed propositions in the opening remarks of at least one of the debates, from what I remember). Of course things that involve physics he wasn't able to win on, but their were some things Krauss didn't refute very well either (like the argument from morality).
So what are you thoughts on it? Since you stated that you dislike Craig.
TheVeganAtheist wrote:Have you watched the 3 debates between Craig and Kraus? I would highly recommend them.
I did (well, at least 2 of them, not sure if I watched the third one), and there I saw Craig make some very flawed propositions. And it's weird, because he understand the subject and logic very well, otherwise he wouldn't be able to point out flaws that opponents make. Therefore it seems likely to me that he knows he's lying in his own propositions.
Although I love the work of Krauss very much and even love watching him debate, he can get very arrogant and upset sometimes and interrupts his opponents a lot. Craig did not do a really bad job in those debates (besides his flawed propositions in the opening remarks of at least one of the debates, from what I remember). Of course things that involve physics he wasn't able to win on, but their were some things Krauss didn't refute very well either (like the argument from morality).
So what are you thoughts on it? Since you stated that you dislike Craig.
I thought Krauss demolished him. What I dont like about Craig is that he is a parrot. He comes out with nearly identical arguments each time, and I've heard great counter arguments, yet he never addresses them. He misuses quotes by others, and keeps using them even when caught. I can tell when other lesser known apologists regurgitate Craig, because his script is so similar each time.
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