Is it possible to be happy without being ignorant

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Jebus
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Is it possible to be happy without being ignorant

Post by Jebus »

or cold-hearted?

Every second there are numerous people and animals suffering intolerable physical and mental pain. I am aware of this but I still manage to live a happy life. However, if I could see or hear the suffering I know there is no way I could remain happy. The suffering that I can not perceive directly bothers me but not enough to prevent me from being happy. I have been struggling with this lately. Why should the proximity to the suffering even be relevant to my happiness?
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miniboes
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Re: Is it possible to be happy without being ignorant

Post by miniboes »

Being depressed won't save any cows, it's better to just try and enjoy life whilst doing everything you reasonably can to solve the problems that bother you.
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PPP
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Re: Is it possible to be happy without being ignorant

Post by PPP »

I would to a certain degree say no.
The suffering and cruelty constantly going on in the world are at least for me a stopping block for being truly 101% happy. With this said I would still very much consider myself living a happy life - but the shadow is ever present.
Just as an example from UNICEF's website:
• 17,000 children die every day, mostly from preventable or treatable causes.
• The births of nearly 230 million children under age 5 worldwide (about one in three) have never been officially recorded, depriving them of their right to a name and nationality.
• 2.5 billion people lack access to improved sanitation, including 1 billion who are forced to resort to open defecation for lack of other options.
• Out of an estimated 35 million people living with HIV, over 2 million are 10 to 19 years old, and 56 per cent of them are girls.
• Globally, about one third of women aged 20 to 24 were child brides.
• Every 10 minutes, somewhere in the world, an adolescent girl dies as a result of violence.
• Nearly half of all deaths in children under age 5 are attributable to undernutrition. This translates into the unnecessary loss of about 3 million young lives a year.
From a related UN website: 4 million people are subject to trafficking each year, about 1,2 million of them are children. For the most part these people are being enslaved for sexual purposes (80%).
And this is only some of the human statistics.. If not all, at least many of us, on this site already knows about the unmeasurable suffering we cause other sentient beings every day, all the time in huge numbers..
Like miniboes stated, being depressed doesn't solve anything so I think one have to recognize one's own limitations and try to live as happily as one can but that doesn't, on the other hand, negate trying to stop/reduce all the bad sh*t that's going on, and it doesn't make it go away - hence my "no" reply to Jebus original question.
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brimstoneSalad
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Re: Is it possible to be happy without being ignorant

Post by brimstoneSalad »

PPP wrote: Like miniboes stated, being depressed doesn't solve anything so I think one have to recognize one's own limitations and try to live as happily as one can but that doesn't, on the other hand, negate trying to stop/reduce all the bad sh*t that's going on, and it doesn't make it go away - hence my "no" reply to Jebus original question.
However, devoting your life to trying to stop that stuff, and really putting your all into making the world a better place gives you a deep sense of purpose and meaning in life, which has the side effect of creating happiness through fulfillment.

I would argue that it's a more meaningful happiness than can be achieved through ignorance, but I'm not sure if it's subjectively a greater happiness.
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Jebus
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Re: Is it possible to be happy without being ignorant

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Thank you all for your replies. PPP really spelled out some depressing realities without even having to touch on the much larger amount of animal suffering. I consider myself a very fortunate happy person and I constantly remind myself of this. However, the thought of current unbearable suffering pop up in my head at random times, like when waking up after a nap, or while enjoying a lovely day on the beach. I do my best to suppress these thoughts as a lot of people's happiness level, including my own, are dependent on my ability to live a balanced life free of terrifying thoughts.

Miniboes is right when he writes that being depressed won't save any cows but depression is an emotion and one that we can only control to a certain degree. If any of us were to witness suffering to loved ones first hand, we wouldn't be able to simply decide to not be depressed because such depression is unproductive.

There is no way I could enjoy a meal with a starving man sitting a couple of meters away from me. I would be uncomfortable eating watching a live video stream of that man starving, however if someone interrupted me during my meal reminding me that a man is currently starving to death I would finish my meal without too much difficulty. I'm not sure how I can justify this without identifying myself as ignorant.

Brimstone mentioned the emotional rewards of trying to stop bad things and although this creates some comfort, my rational self is sometimes reminded of how insignificant my efforts are in the grand scheme.

I have come to realize that the world I live in is fugazi, and one of the few positive things in this fucked up world is that I still have the ability to live a fulfilling life. Hence, in order to continue enjoying this rare happy life I must continue to do my best to be emotionally numb to the ongoing horror that I do not directly perceive.
How to become vegan in 4.5 hours:
1.Watch Forks over Knives (Health)
2.Watch Cowspiracy (Environment)
3. Watch Earthlings (Ethics)
Congratulations, unless you are a complete idiot you are now a vegan.
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miniboes
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Re: Is it possible to be happy without being ignorant

Post by miniboes »

Jebus wrote:Miniboes is right when he writes that being depressed won't save any cows but depression is an emotion and one that we can only control to a certain degree. If any of us were to witness suffering to loved ones first hand, we wouldn't be able to simply decide to not be depressed because such depression is unproductive..
You're right, and I know from experience. The thing that got me to be happy was a change of mindset at its core.
Jebus wrote:if someone interrupted me during my meal reminding me that a man is currently starving to death I would finish my meal without too much difficulty. I'm not sure how I can justify this without identifying myself as ignorant.
In that situation you are not ignorant, you know of the starving people. I would finish my meal too, because I know one more hungry person won't solve anything.
my rational self is sometimes reminded of how insignificant my efforts are in the grand scheme.
“If a problem is fixable, if a situation is such that you can do something about it, then there is no need to worry. If it's not fixable, then there is no help in worrying. There is no benefit in worrying whatsoever.”
- Dalai Lama XIV

I do not agree a 100% with this quote, but as it is impossible for you to single-handedly solve all problems in the world, you probably shouldn't worry about it. Your actions might be insignificant in the grand scheme, however the more people like you there are the more significant the actions will become.
Hence, in order to continue enjoying this rare happy life I must continue to do my best to be emotionally numb to the ongoing horror that I do not directly perceive.
All you need to do is not to constantly worry about what is going on, and instead focus on trying to do whatever you can to stop it. Only a god can be expected to be constantly aware of all that is wrong and expected to fix it all. As you are but a man, it's only a man's effort you can contribute to the world. That does not make it insignificant, the effort you put in is very significant to you, and for someone to do anything about these problems quite rare.
"I advocate infinite effort on behalf of very finite goals, for example correcting this guy's grammar."
- David Frum
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