Are we living in a simulation?

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Red
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Re: Are we living in a simulation?

Post by Red »

Jebus wrote: Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:04 pm
Red wrote: Tue Jun 19, 2018 3:59 pmDid you read the link I provided?
I think the discussion would be easier if you summarized what you learned from this article relating specifically to what I wrote.
So you didn't read it?

Look, to be fair, I can't disprove what you said, but I (and other members) gave reasons why that doesn't matter. This is reminiscent of theistic appeal to ignorance arguments.
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Re: Are we living in a simulation?

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Red wrote: Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:13 pmThis is reminiscent of theistic appeal to ignorance arguments.
What is reminiscent? Can you give an example?
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Re: Are we living in a simulation?

Post by Jebus »

Red wrote: Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:13 pmThis is reminiscent of theistic appeal to ignorance arguments.
What is reminiscent? Can you give an example?


I would say refusing to engage in the discussion and instead leaning on the words of others is an example of theistic appeal to ignorance arguments.
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Re: Are we living in a simulation?

Post by Red »

Jebus wrote: Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:59 am What is reminiscent? Can you give an example?
You don't know for certain if God exists or not, so why not just believe?
Jebus wrote: Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:59 amI would say refusing to engage in the discussion and instead leaning on the words of others is an example of theistic appeal to ignorance arguments.
If I we were debating a scientific theory, would I be wrong on citing scientists who have studied the theory for years?
I'm not an expert in this field (and to be honest, I doubt you are), so I am heeding the words of scientists who have read this book to see what they thought of it, and I believed them to be compelling. I provided you with a link, maybe you should read it, or at the very least skim through it.
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Re: Are we living in a simulation?

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Red wrote: Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:49 am
Jebus wrote: Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:59 am What is reminiscent? Can you give an example?
You don't know for certain if God exists or not, so why not just believe?
I meant give me an example of something I wrote that prompted your "reminiscent" comment.
Red wrote: Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:49 amIf I we were debating a scientific theory, would I be wrong on citing scientists who have studied the theory for years?
First you write down your own thoughts on the matter, and then you can use experts to back that up and/or help clarify your point.

You are treating this thread as if I have a position on the matter (which I do not). However, I think there is reason to give the matter some thought after someone as smart as Elon Musk says there is a 99.99% chance this is the case, while subsequently being supported by Steven Hawking and Neil DeGrasse Tyson.
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Re: Are we living in a simulation?

Post by Red »

Jebus wrote: Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:08 pm I meant give me an example of something I wrote that prompted your "reminiscent" comment.
Well look at my example and you'll see the similarity. Mate.
Jebus wrote: Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:08 pm First you write down your own thoughts on the matter, and then you can use experts to back that up and/or help clarify your point.
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I honestly don't care or see how it's relevant to be living in a simulation. While it does sound novel, and it'd be cool if we knew it were true, as far as we know, it doesn't exist, so I don't think we should be occupying ourselves with the idea.
Jebus wrote: Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:08 pmYou are treating this thread as if I have a position on the matter (which I do not). However, I think there is reason to give the matter some thought after someone as smart as Elon Musk says there is a 99.99% chance this is the case, while subsequently being supported by Steven Hawking and Neil DeGrasse Tyson.
Well homeslice, just because some scientists entertain an idea doesn't give it a lot of credibility if there is no concise evidence presented. Newton had his idea of false beliefs too, such as alchemy (he was still one of our greatest scientists).
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Re: Are we living in a simulation?

Post by esquizofrenico »

Jebus wrote: Tue Jun 19, 2018 3:28 pm
esquizofrenico wrote: Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:03 am What we know is that if we are a simulation, we are a simulation of a universe much much more complex that ours. Despite all that was said in popular culture in the past, we know for certain that we will never be able to simulate a universe even remotely comparable to ours, just to simulate quantum effects in a 100 spin system requires a memory of size larger than the universe.
I don't know of anyone who has proposed that our simulation consists of the whole universe. It consists of our perception that we are part of a whole universe which would require significantly less computing power.
Well, there are certainly people that have proposed it, proof of it is that these people argue that those simulated universes could simulate new universes themselves.

I am curious about your position, however. Are you proposing some kind of solipsism or that other people do exist but that we are all in "the Matrix" (I just use this expression because it gives a clear idea of what it means, not trying to ridicule your position).

How do you believe the simulation would work? Would it be like a videogame, with a "sensitive universe" being created first and later "consciences" created to explore that universe? Or are we just like a conscious movie, both the sensitive universe and the conscience are created at the same time, with only the initially planned experiences being available as in some sort of movie? If it is the first, I don't see how it would be much easier to program the sensitive universe. The computer still needs to calculate what are the predicted experiences according to the laws of nature when a scientist performs a certain experiment, so the problem with predicting the experience observed when experimenting with a system of interacting spins would still be an issue. If it's the second, I don't really see how anyone would bother to program such a thing. A conscious program for which you know everything that will do before starting the simulation, seems like a waste of time.

For me, given all that we know about our universe I would say that if we are a simulation, the universe in which there is the computer that is simulating us is so much different than ours that there is really no point in trying to guess whether it exists or not. I fell much more likely that I am a Fermi's brain hallucinating a human life than a character in a virtual reality.
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