Do we owe Muslims another apology?

General philosophy message board for Discussion and debate on other philosophical issues not directly related to veganism. Metaphysics, religion, theist vs. atheist debates, politics, general science discussion, etc.
User avatar
Greatest I am
Senior Member
Posts: 279
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2016 10:24 am
Diet: Vegan

Do we owe Muslims another apology?

Post by Greatest I am »

Do we owe Muslims another apology?

This link says yes.
http://bigthink.com/videos/maajid-nawaz ... mic-reform

This link says no.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQcSvBsU-FM

To those who think we should try to separate the good Muslims from the bad Muslims.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drJCC2XXMBo

I do not think it is to the non-Muslim world to apologise to Muslims for the criticism we do of their un-civilized ideology.

Should we stop judging and criticizing those institutions of religion that are leading us away from a more civilized state?

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Test all things; hold fast what is good.

Have you tested the ideology of Islam? Is it good to you?

Proverbs 3:12 For whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.

Is correcting and criticizing Islam the loving or the hateful thing to do?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMJATBMebj8

Regards
DL
User avatar
brimstoneSalad
neither stone nor salad
Posts: 10273
Joined: Wed May 28, 2014 9:20 am
Diet: Vegan

Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?

Post by brimstoneSalad »

Greatest I am wrote: Mon May 07, 2018 4:06 pm To those who think we should try to separate the good Muslims from the bad Muslims.
That's over-simplified.

You can look into the ideology of entire sects, and then judge what's being promoted to the group. But you should not conflate different sects.

That's like treating Gnostic Christians, Catholics, and Mormons the same.
Radically different beliefs.

Greatest I am wrote: Mon May 07, 2018 4:06 pmProverbs 3:12 For whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.

Is correcting and criticizing Islam the loving or the hateful thing to do?
Does the father correct all of his children when one of them makes a mistake?
mkm
Full Member
Posts: 105
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:51 am
Diet: Vegan

Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?

Post by mkm »

brimstoneSalad wrote: Mon May 07, 2018 9:11 pm Does the father correct all of his children when one of them makes a mistake?
Sometimes he comes up with new rules for the sake of safety that affect all of his children ;)
User avatar
Greatest I am
Senior Member
Posts: 279
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2016 10:24 am
Diet: Vegan

Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?

Post by Greatest I am »

brimstoneSalad wrote: Mon May 07, 2018 9:11 pm
Greatest I am wrote: Mon May 07, 2018 4:06 pm To those who think we should try to separate the good Muslims from the bad Muslims.
That's over-simplified.

You can look into the ideology of entire sects, and then judge what's being promoted to the group. But you should not conflate different sects.

That's like treating Gnostic Christians, Catholics, and Mormons the same.
Radically different beliefs.

Greatest I am wrote: Mon May 07, 2018 4:06 pmProverbs 3:12 For whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.

Is correcting and criticizing Islam the loving or the hateful thing to do?
Does the father correct all of his children when one of them makes a mistake?
He should if the other children do not know better than the first.

Do you only teach some of your children worthy lessons?

As to judging all in a group as a group. Let me use pedophile priests as an example.

If the good Catholics put their coin in the baskets, do they know for a fact that they are not helping to pay the air fare to move their pedophile priests to a new hunting ground or to be used as a pay off to a victim who is victimized again by turning his assault into an act of delayed payment prostitution?

Regards
DL
User avatar
Greatest I am
Senior Member
Posts: 279
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2016 10:24 am
Diet: Vegan

Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?

Post by Greatest I am »

mkm wrote: Tue May 08, 2018 6:50 am
brimstoneSalad wrote: Mon May 07, 2018 9:11 pm Does the father correct all of his children when one of them makes a mistake?
Sometimes he comes up with new rules for the sake of safety that affect all of his children ;)
A thinking mind. Nice.

Regards
DL
User avatar
brimstoneSalad
neither stone nor salad
Posts: 10273
Joined: Wed May 28, 2014 9:20 am
Diet: Vegan

Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?

Post by brimstoneSalad »

mkm wrote: Tue May 08, 2018 6:50 am
brimstoneSalad wrote: Mon May 07, 2018 9:11 pm Does the father correct all of his children when one of them makes a mistake?
Sometimes he comes up with new rules for the sake of safety that affect all of his children ;)
Seems reasonable. But don't reprimand all of them. ;)
mkm
Full Member
Posts: 105
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:51 am
Diet: Vegan

Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?

Post by mkm »

brimstoneSalad wrote: Wed May 09, 2018 2:35 am Seems reasonable. But don't reprimand all of them. ;)
Doesn't he? It maybe an excercise in semantics, but new restrictions (unfair, if a child haven't done anything wrong) are indistinguishable from a reprimend.
User avatar
brimstoneSalad
neither stone nor salad
Posts: 10273
Joined: Wed May 28, 2014 9:20 am
Diet: Vegan

Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?

Post by brimstoneSalad »

mkm wrote: Sat May 12, 2018 8:23 am
brimstoneSalad wrote: Wed May 09, 2018 2:35 am Seems reasonable. But don't reprimand all of them. ;)
Doesn't he? It maybe an excercise in semantics, but new restrictions (unfair, if a child haven't done anything wrong) are indistinguishable from a reprimend.
The restrictions we're talking about, setting aside the metaphor, are things like not suicide bombing. Good people don't mind not being allowed to blow themselves up and kill people anymore, because they never intended to do that anyway.
Likewise, if we're talking about the scripture that they read, good people don't focus on the nasty parts of their scripture anyway.
If we sanction Mosques that DO focus on that hateful stuff, the good ones should remain untouched.
mkm
Full Member
Posts: 105
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:51 am
Diet: Vegan

Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?

Post by mkm »

brimstoneSalad wrote: Sat May 12, 2018 3:35 pm The restrictions we're talking about, setting aside the metaphor, are things like not suicide bombing. Good people don't mind not being allowed to blow themselves up and kill people anymore, because they never intended to do that anyway.
Likewise, if we're talking about the scripture that they read, good people don't focus on the nasty parts of their scripture anyway.
If we sanction Mosques that DO focus on that hateful stuff, the good ones should remain untouched.
Noble goals, but to prevent some people from suicide bombing, you need to invade innocent people's privacy and waste their time and money. I don't think "nothing to hide, nothing to fear" really works. It doesn't even matter that overall I agree that some preventive measures are good, we shouldn't pretend that it doesn't bother "good peaople", or it doesn't create an atmosphere of distrust or isn't intimidating.
User avatar
brimstoneSalad
neither stone nor salad
Posts: 10273
Joined: Wed May 28, 2014 9:20 am
Diet: Vegan

Re: Do we owe Muslims another apology?

Post by brimstoneSalad »

mkm wrote: Sun May 13, 2018 6:33 am Noble goals, but to prevent some people from suicide bombing, you need to invade innocent people's privacy and waste their time and money.
How did we jump to intervention? I thought this was about ideological condemnation.

The ideology that led to the suicide bombing is a bad ideology. But its sibling isn't necessarily bad, because that ideology didn't lead to bombing.
Post Reply