Dispelling the notion that philosophy is magical

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Cirion Spellbinder
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Dispelling the notion that philosophy is magical

Post by Cirion Spellbinder »

A lot of self-proclaimed rational people have unfavorable views towards philosophy and are unwilling to consider matters of philosophy, lacking the concreteness of science. Of course, philosophy is simply an application of logic to the real world and science is just natural philosophy, but people have a hard time getting this through their heads after a life time believing that all philosophy was subjective and non-sense. It is essential, I contend, to activism and enjoyable discussion that this point be clarified, as it naturally allows for the truth.

So my questions are as follows:
(1) What are some quick (but valid) arguments to educate people on the definition of philosophy?
(2) How can we separate ourselves from the plethora of bad philosophers and bad philosophy out there?
(3) Should philosophy be called a humanity?
mkm
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Re: Dispelling the notion that philosophy is magical

Post by mkm »

I feel forced to ask a question: what is your definition of philosophy? And then what is a bad philosophy? ;) I share to some degree a conviction that you could propably throw away a big chunk of philosophy and we wouldn't be hurt in any way (or maybe we could dodge a war or two?). Is that what you mean by "bad philosophy"?

I don't know philosophy all that well, but I know for sure, that some "schools of thought" were clearly nonsensical, like for example logical positivism - if only true assertions are these empiracally verifiable, then that very assertion is itself not empiracally verifiable and should not be trusted, hence logical positivism is self-contradictory. Same with some extreme forms of relativism - if there is no truth, then why should we accept as true the assertion that there is no truth? I'm curious where this topic will head, so I'll stop here for now :)
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brimstoneSalad
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Re: Dispelling the notion that philosophy is magical

Post by brimstoneSalad »

That's a tough conversation. It's like explaining the difference between pseudoscience and science. It comes down to a nuanced understanding of methodology. I don't think there's a quick argument.

And unlike science, there's no easy consensus litmus test either. Unfortunately, historical philosophy is still accepted as philosophy in academics, whereas in the sciences they don't teach or give any serious consideration aether theory instead of relativity or humorism instead of germ theory.
carnap
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Re: Dispelling the notion that philosophy is magical

Post by carnap »

The problem is that the term "philosophy" has more than one meaning and most people think of it colloquially rather than academically. But even the type of philosophy that is taught academically changes from country to country. For example almost all philosophy done in English speaking nations is from the Analytic tradition where as philosophy in France is more likely to be rooted in the continental tradition.

But even in the case of analytic philosophy, its not just an "application of logic". Analytic philosophy is best described as a process of conceptual clarification and I think this is the best way to explain the importance of (analytic) philosophy to people. Before any subject can be studied scientifically it first has to be understood with enough clarity to allow for experimentation. As subjects mature they become more properly speaking "scientific" and people often forget about all conceptual ground work that occurred to get it to that point. The more mature the science the less people will tend to know about its history.
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Cirion Spellbinder
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Re: Dispelling the notion that philosophy is magical

Post by Cirion Spellbinder »

mkm wrote: Mon Mar 26, 2018 5:45 amI feel forced to ask a question: what is your definition of philosophy?
Using logic to the end of truth.
And then what is a bad philosophy?
Philosophy that isn’t based on logic (non-philosophy branded as philosophy), philosophy that is based on logic but proves contradictions to be true, or philosophy that is incoherent.
Cirion Spellbinder
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Re: Dispelling the notion that philosophy is magical

Post by Cirion Spellbinder »

carnap wrote: Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:49 amFor example almost all philosophy done in English speaking nations is from the Analytic tradition where as philosophy in France is more likely to be rooted in the continental tradition.
Could you explain these traditions and any other relevant ones to me (or provide a reference that does the same)?
Before any subject can be studied scientifically it first has to be understood with enough clarity to allow for experimentation. As subjects mature they become more properly speaking "scientific" and people often forget about all conceptual ground work that occurred to get it to that point. The more mature the science the less people will tend to know about its history.
When you place scientific in quotes do you mean it to mean something else than in the rest of the passage, different from the common usage, both, or neither?
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Re: Dispelling the notion that philosophy is magical

Post by carnap »

Cirion Spellbinder wrote: Tue Mar 27, 2018 8:20 pm Could you explain these traditions and any other relevant ones to me (or provide a reference that does the same)?
Western philosophy has two major traditions, namely, analytic and continental. This division was created in the 19th century and is pretty fuzzy, that is, where one stops and the other begins isn't always clear. The difference between the two mostly comes down to methodology, analytic philosophy attempts to clarify concepts by analyzing them to their core components where as continental philosophy is more holistic. Some well known continental philosophers are people like Nietzsche and Sartre. The work of Karl Marx is derivative of continental philosophy as well.

The wiki pages for the two schools does a reasonable job of describing them.
Cirion Spellbinder wrote: Tue Mar 27, 2018 8:20 pm When you place scientific in quotes do you mean it to mean something else than in the rest of the passage, different from the common usage, both, or neither?
The quoted term was intended to be the common usage which isn't all that accurate of scientific methodology. That is, at some point a field of study will become clear enough to be considered a serious part of science by the mainstream. Prior to that period its more philosophic/theoretical in nature which many (including scientists) will deride as not being science.
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Re: Dispelling the notion that philosophy is magical

Post by mkm »

Cirion Spellbinder wrote: Tue Mar 27, 2018 8:15 pm Using logic to the end of truth.

Philosophy that isn’t based on logic (non-philosophy branded as philosophy), philosophy that is based on logic but proves contradictions to be true, or philosophy that is incoherent.
I think it's more nuanced than that. You may have perfectly valid philosophy that for example rejects scientific method and modern science as a whole. Would it be "bad philosophy"? Would you allow to have two contradictory philosophies labelled as "good", or at least "not bad"?
Cirion Spellbinder
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Re: Dispelling the notion that philosophy is magical

Post by Cirion Spellbinder »

mkm wrote: Wed Mar 28, 2018 6:21 amYou may have perfectly valid philosophy that for example rejects scientific method and modern science as a whole. Would it be "bad philosophy"?
How do you know such a philosophy exists?
Would you allow to have two contradictory philosophies labelled as "good", or at least "not bad"?
I think then we must consider these as possibilities with a certain probability, allowing a wager to decide which leaves us best off.
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Re: Dispelling the notion that philosophy is magical

Post by mkm »

Cirion Spellbinder wrote: Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:57 pm How do you know such a philosophy exists?
Because solipsism is consistent for example. Not really useful, but still.
Cirion Spellbinder wrote: Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:57 pm I think then we must consider these as possibilities with a certain probability, allowing a wager to decide which leaves us best off.
How do you measure propability of these possibilities?
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