GOD vs EVOLUTION

General philosophy message board for Discussion and debate on other philosophical issues not directly related to veganism. Metaphysics, religion, theist vs. atheist debates, politics, general science discussion, etc.
Ry4truth
Newbie
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2014 10:43 pm

GOD vs EVOLUTION

Post by Ry4truth »

THE LESSON TO END ALL DEBATES REGARDING GOD, RELIGION and ATHEISM.

I was once an athiest, I was taught to pray and to believe in God by my parents. But as I entered my teen years I began to question the things that I was taught. And so I began to read the bible, in hopes of understanding God and religion. Here are my results from many years of study and experience.

GOD vs EVOLUTION

When the religious are asked whether creation or evolution is right. They quickly reply with creation, and then they point to genesis of the bible. They are in no way wrong. When scientists and atheists are asked the same question. They reply with the knowledge of evolution. They are in no way wrong.

WHO IS RIGHT?

If you were to bake a cake, how would you do it?. Would you wave a magic wand and will it to be done?. No you wouldn't because magic doesn't exist and we all know it.

So you would naturally gather all the ingredients needed. And follow the proper procedure to create a cake. Thus you have effectively "created" a thing into existence. Who's to say God didn't do the same thing?.

God isn't a magician he is a scientist. We do not understand how he first created life. But that doesn't give us the right to say he didn't create life. The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.

I find science and faith to both be right in this matter. Science while still young can explain how things were done to a certain degree. It still has a long way to go.

Religion is rather old and can explain things to a certain degree. But it must be corrected for it's wrongdoings.

Science and faith are both right regarding the creation of life. People are making money on both sides while fueling the fire of hatred and discontent. Both sides are surely guilty of this.

Jesus taught us that compassion, respect and understanding was the way. And yet everyday I hear how the religious discriminate against there neighbors. Those who judge an individual based on religion have committed sin against the will of God. If you don't believe that Jesus was a divine being that's great, take it for what he truly was. A man,, he was just a man who cared about his fellow people and he wanted to make a positive difference in the lives of those around him.

Jesus said "love thy neighbor" and yet I hear and see the religious judge and discriminate there neighbors. Because they don't pray the way you do. Or because they don't pray at the same church as you.

Religion is wrong, but faith and belief in the divine are not, Let me explain.

Jesus taught us that we didn't need a middle man between people and God. That's why he taught us prayer. Then the church was founded and they began to ask for money from the faithful. And the faithful did so without question.

The church is responsible for millions of deaths throughout history, the crusades, the inquisition and so on.

Even the holy bible is untrue, the bible has been edited and revised dozens of times throughout history. It started with the council of nicea, under Constantine the great. And it has been edited ever since. In truth we only have very little bits of information pertaining to Jesus and his teachings. Another interesting truth are the many contradictions in the bible.

For instance, if God is all powerful and all knowing. Then why do we need to go to church?. Can't he hear us wherever we are?. And if God is merciful and loving then why did he kill "every firstborn son of Egypt"?. My conclusion?, the God of the bible is not the God I know and love.

THE TRUTH

All faiths and religions should be respected, even if you disagree with it. All sciences and theist ideas should be respected even if you disagree. If you pass a priest who is gathering people for his church. Do not bestow hatred upon him. If you pass a scientist who teaches evolution do not bestow hatred upon him. Just because you respect something doesn't mean you have to agree with it.

Religion and faith are two different things. They are not the same. Religion is the practice of a belief without evidence or proof. You do it because you are taught to, not because you actually believe in it yourself.

Faith is when you do not need to go to church. You don't need to memorize prayers or give a priest your money when asked. Faith is the firm conviction that the divine and spiritual are real. Because the individual has seen and or experienced things that science nor religion can explain. And it transforms the individual to a higher degree, that religion cannot do. I speak with much experience regarding this matter.

We are all human, we must all strive to become good people. Anger, oppression and violence is never the way. Let us come to an understanding of one another. God is real, heaven is real. I have seen it with my own eyes. And I have proof I can show you if you should request it.
User avatar
TheVeganAtheist
Site Admin
Posts: 824
Joined: Sun May 04, 2014 9:39 am
Diet: Vegan
Location: Canada

Re: GOD vs EVOLUTION

Post by TheVeganAtheist »

Ry4truth wrote:THE LESSON TO END ALL DEBATES REGARDING GOD, RELIGION and ATHEISM.
false
I was once an athiest
forgot how to spell atheist? This claim is common from theists. In what way were you an atheist? Questioning what you were taught doesn't make you an atheist.
When the religious are asked whether creation or evolution is right. They quickly reply with creation, and then they point to genesis of the bible.


Correction: When certain religious fundamentalists are asked, they give the answer you claim. Not all religious people believe in biblical creation and reject evolution.
No you wouldn't because magic doesn't exist and we all know it.
Depends on what you define as magic. I define magic as either synonymous with what a magician performs (trickery and deception) or what they bible claims that god/angels and jesus do (supernatural/miracles). Magic in the first sense does exist, while I agree that magic in the supernatural sense does not appear to exist.
And follow the proper procedure to create a cake. Thus you have effectively "created" a thing into existence.

incorrect, you have combined pre-existing material into a new form, not created something out of nothing as is typically attributed of a god.
God isn't a magician he is a scientist.
baseless assertion. Provide evidence.
We do not understand how he first created life
we don't know that a HE exists or created anything.
But that doesn't give us the right to say he didn't create life
we have the right to say what we want, including that god did not create life. Prove that a god exists, and prove that he created life, and then I will believe in your assertions.
The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.
The absence of evidence in invisible flying unicorns on Jupiter doesnt mean they dont exist, right? So its justifiable to believe in invisible flying unicorns on Jupiter? When evidence is expected and not available, then absence of evidence is evidence of absence.
I find science and faith to both be right in this matter.
I dont particularly care what you think. Science is demonstrable and falsifiable, faith is not. Faith is hoping or wishing something into existence.
Science while still young can explain how things were done to a certain degree. It still has a long way to go.
nobody ever claimed that we know everything there is to know.
Religion is rather old and can explain things to a certain degree
its age has no relevance to its truth claims. If you use reason and evidence to conclude something as true, you are engaging in science. If you assert as fact things you could not possibly know to be true, then you are in the domain of religion.
Science and faith are both right regarding the creation of life
In what way is faith right about the creation of life? Which faith?
People are making money on both sides while fueling the fire of hatred and discontent. Both sides are surely guilty of this.
Your point?
Jesus taught us that compassion, respect and understanding was the way
no, you have a words written down hundreds to thousands of years ago by anonymous writers who attributed words to a man who may or may not have ever existed. You have trust in the people who wrote and compiled the bible, i do not.
Those who judge an individual based on religion have committed sin against the will of God
says who?
If you don't believe that Jesus was a divine being that's great, take it for what he truly was. A man,, he was just a man who cared about his fellow people and he wanted to make a positive difference in the lives of those around him.
why is it great to deny jesus's divinity? How have you determined that the words attributed to jesus were actually spoken by him? How have you verified that any of the stories are true and not myth and legend?
Religion is wrong, but faith and belief in the divine are not,
religion is faith/belief codified. How have you verified that faith and belief in the divine is not wrong?
The church is responsible for millions of deaths throughout history, the crusades, the inquisition and so on.
They are also responsible for creating and assembling the book in which you have so much trust in. If you mistrust the institution that created the bible, how can you trust the book itself?
Even the holy bible is untrue, the bible has been edited and revised dozens of times throughout history. It started with the council of nicea, under Constantine the great. And it has been edited ever since. In truth we only have very little bits of information pertaining to Jesus and his teachings. Another interesting truth are the many contradictions in the bible.
You recognize this, yet you still believe in jesus and trust that the words attributed to him are his. How? How have you determined which parts are errors and which are actually true?
the God of the bible is not the God I know and love.

which god do you know and love? how do you know him?
ll faiths and religions should be respected, even if you disagree with it
why? I don't respect beliefs if they are silly, demonstrably false or destructive to society. Why should I respect that which I find morally reprehensible?
All sciences and theist ideas should be respected even if you disagree.
why? I don't respect ideas, i respect demonstrable evidence which leads to truth.
Religion and faith are two different things. They are not the same
i dont know anyone who would claim they are the same.
Religion is the practice of a belief without evidence or proof. You do it because you are taught to, not because you actually believe in it yourself.
Id say thats a similar definition of faith.
Faith is the firm conviction that the divine and spiritual are real.
firm conviction doesn't make something real. If I have a firm conviction that the lottery ticket I bought is a winner, that doesnt increase my chances of actually winning.
Because the individual has seen and or experienced things that science nor religion can explain.
science can explain.
We are all human, we must all strive to become good people.
We must? Says who? I think we should strive to be all good for each others sake, but there is no outside compulsion.
God is real, heaven is real. I have seen it with my own eyes.
You have seen god and heaven with your eyes? How can you see an immaterial being and place with material eyes? How is your experience evidence for me? There are people who claim to have seen aliens or bigfoot. Should we without question accept their experiences and believe them? No, we should demand evidence. Failing to provide compelling evidence, their extraordinary claims should be dismissed, as I dismiss yours.
Do you find the forum to be quiet and inactive?
- Do your part by engaging in new and old topics
- Don't wait for others to start NEW topics, post one yourself
- Invite family, friends or critics
Ry4truth
Newbie
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2014 10:43 pm

Re: GOD vs EVOLUTION

Post by Ry4truth »

Okay let me explain a few things

1. I never said I believed in the bible, in fact I said I don't believe in the bible. I said that some points made in the bible stand true to this day.

2. Picking on someones grammar isn't necessary on this topic.

3. I believe in God because I met him, while this is in no way proof to you. But I can give you evidence for his existence. As well as the existence of the divine. I have had many spiritual and supernatural experiences that science cannot explain.

4. I was just like the rest of you, I didn't beleive in a god or in any supernatural power. I thought it was just a bunch of stories made up by a bunch of people in the Bronze Age.

5. I base my beleifes on science, mathematics and common sense. I'm in no way a religious person.

6. I mean no disrespect to any atheist, theist, or any other persons of religion or spiritual belief. Like I said before I'm speaking from experiences from both sides.

7. Take what I say with a grain of salt, this is just a discussion, there is no need to get upset or be insulted.

8. Keep an open mind, maybe there are rainbow unicorns who live on Jupiter. only Until I can prove you wrong will I be able to justifiably discredit your beliefs

9. This one is for all the atheists out there, just because you understand how something is made doesn't mean you understand who made it.

10. this one is in regards to creation. If I take a bunch of materials and throw them into the sky and try to make a planet, do you think anything would happen?. Of course not, nothing would happen. Because something can't be created out of nothing. And everything has a cause, bowling pins can't be knocked down without a bowling ball etc. the idea that the world was created all by itself is completely idiotic. Something had to start the chain reaction. Matter won't move by itself.

11. Atheists are still arguing about the past, you have not realized the truth yet. I think you are wrong, but you don't see me making youtube channels and having public demonstrations to get rid of atheism. Why do you think that is?, it's called MATURITY learn it. If you don't think there is a God, then that's fine, I personally have no problem with that. In fact I encourage debate and discussion about these things. But when I see hatred being bestowed upon other people for there beliefs that's what I have a problem with. It's so hypocritical of atheists to condemn religion for all its wrongs when you are doing the same thing to a lesser degree.

Here are some examples, you have atheist demonstrations across the world denouncing God etc. you teach children that there is no God etc. you pr not even giving them a chance to find out the truth for themselves. You make money off of this, selling shirts, making money off of youtube. And on this site. There are a whole bunch of atheist merchandise on this site. And while a value everyone's opinion and I think it's important to be able to express how you feel. You may not realize how all this is being used to make a quick buck.

12. There is always someone who prospers off of war and discontent. History teaches us this. "Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it".

13. Science cannot explain everything, it is still quite young. Science can't prove that God doesn't exist. I am a firm believer in science and technology. Please get your facts straight before making stupid comments.

14. Personally I am glad that we are moving away from religion I think it's time the human race advanced.

15. Do not bestow anger or hatred upon those who believe in a God. Don't hate people who go to church. While I personally don't beleive in church and I think it's a scam. I would not try to shut the church down or to discrimate against my neighbors because they are church goers. Mutual respect, and understanding is needed from both sides.

16. If you don't like religion, don't take part in it, ignore those who try to get you involved in it. If you don't like atheism don't get involved, ignore those who try to get you involved. But there is no reason for atheists to publicly try to destroy the faith in God. If it's not hurting anyone then leave it alone. If you don't like religion and someone tries to preach to you or "save" you. Then just smile and walk away, Be the bigger person. After all no one is forcing you into religion. Let's all be adults about this. And stop wining.

17. I want to thank you all for reading this latest post. Please know that I mean no disrespect towards anyone. Please let me know your thoughts.
User avatar
miniboes
Master of the Forum
Posts: 1578
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2014 1:52 pm
Diet: Vegan
Location: Netherlands

Re: GOD vs EVOLUTION

Post by miniboes »

Ry4truth wrote:3. I believe in God because I met him, while this is in no way proof to you. But I can give you evidence for his existence. As well as the existence of the divine. I have had many spiritual and supernatural experiences that science cannot explain.
Please provice us with your evidence. If you don't, we might all burn in hell for our ignorance.
Ry4truth wrote:8. Keep an open mind, maybe there are rainbow unicorns who live on Jupiter. only Until I can prove you wrong will I be able to justifiably discredit your beliefs
It is literally impossible to disprove anything. I cannot prove there are no dragons on earth; whilst nobody might ever have seen one, it might live underground or be invisible to us or be of such tiny size we cannot see it with our bare eyes. This does not mean we should all believe in dragons, because if we did there would be no way to distinguish reality from fiction. The same is true for god; we cannot disprove his existence because to disprove the existence of anything is impossible. Thus the correct position is not to believe in a god until evidence is provided.
Ry4truth wrote:9. This one is for all the atheists out there, just because you understand how something is made doesn't mean you understand who made it.
This is assuming something is made by anyone. Because we can understand how the universe came to be we can also understand that it did not need a designer. The question 'who made it' is thus not something we need to answer, and I return to my point that the default position should be to deny a creators existence.
Ry4truth wrote:10. this one is in regards to creation. If I take a bunch of materials and throw them into the sky and try to make a planet, do you think anything would happen?. Of course not, nothing would happen. Because something can't be created out of nothing. And everything has a cause, bowling pins can't be knocked down without a bowling ball etc. the idea that the world was created all by itself is completely idiotic. Something had to start the chain reaction. Matter won't move by itself.
Your example of throwing materials into the sky does not disprove anything about the creation of planets as they are already affected by the gravity of Earth. Also, those materials are not nothing. I am not a physicist, but to your assumption that something cannot be created out of nothing can only be false as proven by the fact that the universe exists, whether created by a god or not. Your god, after all, would have had to be created out of nothing too.
Ry4truth wrote:I think you are wrong, but you don't see me making youtube channels and having public demonstrations to get rid of atheism. Why do you think that is?, it's called MATURITY learn it.
You claim because you are mature, you are not publicly trying to get rid of atheism. Yet here you are, trying to convince us that your belief is the right one. Also, you provide no arguments why the things you mentioned would be immature.
Ry4truth wrote:In fact I encourage debate and discussion about these things. But when I see hatred being bestowed upon other people for there beliefs that's what I have a problem with.
I don't see how VeganAtheist or anyone on this forum is bestowing hatred on anyone. The only reason you feel this way is because you confuse your identity and beliefs. Whether you believe god exists or not, this does not define you as a person. What VeganAtheist does in his stupid X comments is judging the arguments made in the comments, not the people behind it. After all, he does stupid atheist and vegan comments too. I admit there are a lot of atheists out there that attack religious people personally, but just like a suicide bombing Muslim does not represent all theists those atheists do not represent all atheists.
Ry4truth wrote:Here are some examples, you have atheist demonstrations across the world denouncing God etc. you teach children that there is no God etc. you pr not even giving them a chance to find out the truth for themselves.
Where do you base this on? Sure there are atheists that do this, but that does not mean all atheists do that. I think most atheists on this forum would teach their children to critically assess any belief, including that there is no god.
Ry4truth wrote:You make money off of this, selling shirts, making money off of youtube. And on this site. There are a whole bunch of atheist merchandise on this site. And while a value everyone's opinion and I think it's important to be able to express how you feel. You may not realize how all this is being used to make a quick buck.
He is also putting work into this, aside from his dayjob. It is only fair that he receives some money for the work he does.
Ry4truth wrote:12. There is always someone who prospers off of war and discontent. History teaches us this. "Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it".
What is your point? What war?
Ry4truth wrote:Science cannot explain everything, it is still quite young. Science can't prove that God doesn't exist. I am a firm believer in science and technology. Please get your facts straight before making stupid comments.
I refer again to my point that it is impossible to disprove anything, thus denial is the correct starting position until evidence is presented.
Ry4truth wrote:15. Do not bestow anger or hatred upon those who believe in a God. Don't hate people who go to church. While I personally don't beleive in church and I think it's a scam. I would not try to shut the church down or to discrimate against my neighbors because they are church goers. Mutual respect, and understanding is needed from both sides.
Nobody here is bestowing anger or hatred. If anything, it's trying to get people to think in a more rational way. To assume that no atheists respect religious people is discriminatory. I would not shut the church down, but I do hope people will one day no longer want a church and it will naturally cease to exist.
Ry4truth wrote:16. If you don't like religion, don't take part in it, ignore those who try to get you involved in it. If you don't like atheism don't get involved, ignore those who try to get you involved. But there is no reason for atheists to publicly try to destroy the faith in God. If it's not hurting anyone then leave it alone. If you don't like religion and someone tries to preach to you or "save" you. Then just smile and walk away, Be the bigger person. After all no one is forcing you into religion. Let's all be adults about this. And stop wining.
As long as the president of the United States swears to a bible, I think religion is a problem. It is important to act in a rational way rather than how you think some supernatural creature would want you to. The bible has some very crooked morals, as VeganAtheist demonstrates in his crazy bible verses series. Even if you're not basing your moral system on the bible, to base it on a being that would have people suffer eternally simply for being born in the wrong culture (e.g. a hinduistic culture) is plain wrong. I think we should be adults, and not base our morals on fairy tales.

To attack religious people personally is not necessary, but to criticize their belief is. You're going to offend people, but that is sometimes necessary. I think VeganAtheist is doing this in a very respectful way, more than is to be expected. It is easy to dismiss all religious people as idiots and be done with it, but instead he decides to take all their arguments seriously and replies with rational arguments.
"I advocate infinite effort on behalf of very finite goals, for example correcting this guy's grammar."
- David Frum
User avatar
TheVeganAtheist
Site Admin
Posts: 824
Joined: Sun May 04, 2014 9:39 am
Diet: Vegan
Location: Canada

Re: GOD vs EVOLUTION

Post by TheVeganAtheist »

Great points brought up by miniboes. I will add my thoughts as well:
Ry4truth wrote: 1. I never said I believed in the bible, in fact I said I don't believe in the bible. I said that some points made in the bible stand true to this day.
Then how do you claim to know what jesus said and did? There are some points made in many books (including clearly fictional books) that still stand true to this day. What is your point?
2. Picking on someones grammar isn't necessary on this topic.
True, however for someone claiming to have once been an atheist, i would have thought you knew how to spell the word.
3. I believe in God because I met him, while this is in no way proof to you. But I can give you evidence for his existence. As well as the existence of the divine. I have had many spiritual and supernatural experiences that science cannot explain.
Please provide evidence of god and the divine.
4. I was just like the rest of you, I didn't beleive in a god or in any supernatural power. I thought it was just a bunch of stories made up by a bunch of people in the Bronze Age.

What happened? How did you loose your critical scepticism?
5. I base my beleifes on science, mathematics and common sense. I'm in no way a religious person.
Common sense is highly subjective depending on your already held beliefs. A theist will think it obvious that a god exists, while an atheist will deny it.
6. I mean no disrespect to any atheist, theist, or any other persons of religion or spiritual belief. Like I said before I'm speaking from experiences from both sides.
Im not an atheist due to some specific experience. My atheism has come out of an examination of the lack of evidence and valid argument for a god.
7. Take what I say with a grain of salt, this is just a discussion, there is no need to get upset or be insulted.
I am in no way upset or insulted. I am simply asking questions and providing my perspective.
8. Keep an open mind, maybe there are rainbow unicorns who live on Jupiter. only Until I can prove you wrong will I be able to justifiably discredit your beliefs
My mind is open to evidence, not fantasy. Until there is evidence to justify a belief in anything, i will withhold belief. If I believed in anything and everything just because the evidence has not been yet demonstrated, I would not be able to ever determine fact from fiction. The default position should always be disbelief until sufficient evidence has been provided. This way, you believe in as many true things as possible and avoid believing in false things.
9. This one is for all the atheists out there, just because you understand how something is made doesn't mean you understand who made it.
You also can't determine that a "who" made it.
10. this one is in regards to creation. If I take a bunch of materials and throw them into the sky and try to make a planet, do you think anything would happen?. Of course not, nothing would happen. Because something can't be created out of nothing.
Thats not how planets form. Perhaps you should investigate this before making such an argument. We dont know that something can't come from nothing. We have never seen something come out of nothing (except in studying quantum mechanics). All we have is something coming from other stuff.
Matter won't move by itself.
It actually does since there are laws that the universe operates in.
11. Atheists are still arguing about the past, you have not realized the truth yet.
What truth have we not realized?
I think you are wrong, but you don't see me making youtube channels and having public demonstrations to get rid of atheism. Why do you think that is?, it's called MATURITY learn it.
You may not be making videos trying to defeat atheism, but there are thousands of people who are. Maturity has nothing to do with it. I engage in these issues because theism has real world effects on my life and the people I care for.
But when I see hatred being bestowed upon other people for there beliefs that's what I have a problem with. It's so hypocritical of atheists to condemn religion for all its wrongs when you are doing the same thing to a lesser degree.
A lot of people have been directly harmed by religion and strong convictions in what their version of god wants of them and their society. What wrong doings are atheists engaged in specifically that makes us hypocritical?
ou have atheist demonstrations across the world denouncing God etc. you teach children that there is no God etc. you pr not even giving them a chance to find out the truth for themselves. You make money off of this, selling shirts, making money off of youtube. And on this site. There are a whole bunch of atheist merchandise on this site. And while a value everyone's opinion and I think it's important to be able to express how you feel. You may not realize how all this is being used to make a quick buck.
How is denouncing god a wrong? I dont teach children that there is no god, I teach to follow the evidence. Theist parents teach their children that god exists and dont give them a chance to find out if what they have been indoctrinated is actually true.
I make zero $0 on my shirts and store. I donate 100% to secular charities.
12. There is always someone who prospers off of war and discontent. History teaches us this. "Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it".
how is this relevant to the topic at hand?
13. Science cannot explain everything, it is still quite young. Science can't prove that God doesn't exist. I am a firm believer in science and technology. Please get your facts straight before making stupid comments.
As I've already stated, nobody is saying that science has explained everything. Science can't prove that god doesnt exist, but science can't prove at this point that universe creating pixies dont exist either. Science is not about disproving, but rather about providing evidence to formulate the best conclusion given what we currently know. It is open to revision as new data is collected. What do you mean by "i am a firm believer in science and technology"? Which comments have I made are stupid?
14. Personally I am glad that we are moving away from religion I think it's time the human race advanced.
we can at least agree on one thing. I would take it a step further and include this spirituality nonsense.
15. Do not bestow anger or hatred upon those who believe in a God. Don't hate people who go to church. While I personally don't beleive in church and I think it's a scam. I would not try to shut the church down or to discrimate against my neighbors because they are church goers. Mutual respect, and understanding is needed from both sides.
I am not angry with believers who simply mind their own business and don't try to interfere with my life. I am not trying to shut down churches. I am trying to engage people so that they realize that they dont need the fairy tales. I respect people who earn my respect. I do not respect silly beliefs.
16. If you don't like religion, don't take part in it, ignore those who try to get you involved in it. If you don't like atheism don't get involved, ignore those who try to get you involved. But there is no reason for atheists to publicly try to destroy the faith in God. If it's not hurting anyone then leave it alone. If you don't like religion and someone tries to preach to you or "save" you. Then just smile and walk away, Be the bigger person. After all no one is forcing you into religion. Let's all be adults about this. And stop wining.
I dont take part in it, however the religious rarely keep their beliefs to themselves, and so I work to defend my right to live free from religious interference. There are countless reasons why atheists should publicly destroy faith in a god. It is hurting people. Religion is being forced in schools, government, places of employment, etc. No one here is whining.
Do you find the forum to be quiet and inactive?
- Do your part by engaging in new and old topics
- Don't wait for others to start NEW topics, post one yourself
- Invite family, friends or critics
User avatar
Red
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 3897
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 8:59 pm
Diet: Vegan
Location: To the Depths, in Degradation

Re: GOD vs EVOLUTION

Post by Red »

Ry4truth wrote:THE LESSON TO END ALL DEBATES REGARDING GOD, RELIGION and ATHEISM.

GOD vs EVOLUTION

When the religious are asked whether creation or evolution is right. They quickly reply with creation, and then they point to genesis of the bible. They are in no way wrong. When scientists and atheists are asked the same question. They reply with the knowledge of evolution. They are in no way wrong.

Well for starters, you confused evolution with Abiogenesis.

WHO IS RIGHT?

If you were to bake a cake, how would you do it?. Would you wave a magic wand and will it to be done?. No you wouldn't because magic doesn't exist and we all know it.

So you would naturally gather all the ingredients needed. And follow the proper procedure to create a cake. Thus you have effectively "created" a thing into existence. Who's to say God didn't do the same thing?.

But all God did was way "Let there be light" and I would consider that to be magic, in a way.

God isn't a magician he is a scientist. We do not understand how he first created life. But that doesn't give us the right to say he didn't create life. The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.

*Facepalm*

I find science and faith to both be right in this matter. Science while still young can explain how things were done to a certain degree. It still has a long way to go.

Religion is rather old and can explain things to a certain degree. But it must be corrected for it's wrongdoings.

What can religion explain?

Science and faith are both right regarding the creation of life. People are making money on both sides while fueling the fire of hatred and discontent. Both sides are surely guilty of this.

Jesus taught us that compassion, respect and understanding was the way. And yet everyday I hear how the religious discriminate against there neighbors. Those who judge an individual based on religion have committed sin against the will of God. If you don't believe that Jesus was a divine being that's great, take it for what he truly was. A man,, he was just a man who cared about his fellow people and he wanted to make a positive difference in the lives of those around him.



Jesus said "love thy neighbor" and yet I hear and see the religious judge and discriminate there neighbors. Because they don't pray the way you do. Or because they don't pray at the same church as you.

I'll just ignore the grammar errors for now, but let's get to the more meaningful stuff. If you take a good look at the middle east, there are Jews, Christians, and the Muslims, which are most prevalent, you can clearly see they don't follow that "Those who judge an individual based on religion have committed sin against the will of God." rule. And I always wondered, if Jesus was just a regular person, how was he able to turn water into wine, cure leprosy, etc? And it doesn't really make sense if he's 100% god, and 100% man. Can't you just say he was 50/50?
Religion is wrong, but faith and belief in the divine are not, Let me explain.

Jesus taught us that we didn't need a middle man between people and God. That's why he taught us prayer. Then the church was founded and they began to ask for money from the faithful. And the faithful did so without question.

Prayer is impractical, and the church always wants money, everyone knows that.

The church is responsible for millions of deaths throughout history, the crusades, the inquisition and so on.

Correct, but I think that you're starting to stray off a but.. and Muslims too, don't forget they also caused a lot of harm. And it's still happening today!

Even the holy bible is untrue, the bible has been edited and revised dozens of times throughout history. It started with the council of nicea, under Constantine the great. And it has been edited ever since. In truth we only have very little bits of information pertaining to Jesus and his teachings. Another interesting truth are the many contradictions in the bible.

Your point?

For instance, if God is all powerful and all knowing. Then why do we need to go to church?. Can't he hear us wherever we are?. And if God is merciful and loving then why did he kill "every firstborn son of Egypt"?. My conclusion?, the God of the bible is not the God I know and love.

Yea, he's a jerk. You may say he loves you, but just wait until you're on your death bed. (Not saying you deserve it, it's just for the sake of argument)


THE TRUTH

All faiths and religions should be respected, even if you disagree with it. All sciences and theist ideas should be respected even if you disagree. If you pass a priest who is gathering people for his church. Do not bestow hatred upon him. If you pass a scientist who teaches evolution do not bestow hatred upon him. Just because you respect something doesn't mean you have to agree with it.

As Tony Soprano said, "Those who want respect, give respect" and I don't really see it from a majority of religious folk. They always hold up these posters saying "GOD HATES GAYS!" or something similar. They obvioulsy don't know the golden rule. They probably haven't even read the first chapter of Genesis!

Religion and faith are two different things. They are not the same. Religion is the practice of a belief without evidence or proof. You do it because you are taught to, not because you actually believe in it yourself.

Faith is when you do not need to go to church. You don't need to memorize prayers or give a priest your money when asked. Faith is the firm conviction that the divine and spiritual are real. Because the individual has seen and or experienced things that science nor religion can explain. And it transforms the individual to a higher degree, that religion cannot do. I speak with much experience regarding this matter.

We are all human, we must all strive to become good people. Anger, oppression and violence is never the way. Let us come to an understanding of one another. God is real, heaven is real. I have seen it with my own eyes. And I have proof I can show you if you should request it.
k
Learning never exhausts the mind.
-Leonardo da Vinci
User avatar
TheVeganAtheist
Site Admin
Posts: 824
Joined: Sun May 04, 2014 9:39 am
Diet: Vegan
Location: Canada

Re: GOD vs EVOLUTION

Post by TheVeganAtheist »

RedAppleGP wrote: k
please avoid unnecessarily quoting previous comments as it fills pages of the thread with the same content.
Do you find the forum to be quiet and inactive?
- Do your part by engaging in new and old topics
- Don't wait for others to start NEW topics, post one yourself
- Invite family, friends or critics
User avatar
Volenta
Master in Training
Posts: 696
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 5:13 pm
Diet: Vegan

Re: GOD vs EVOLUTION

Post by Volenta »

TheVeganAtheist wrote:
RedAppleGP wrote: k
please avoid unnecessarily quoting previous comments as it fills pages of the thread with the same content.
It seems like RedAppleGP is responding to Ry4truth within the quote itself. This doesn't make it readable for others, but he didn't just quote a previous comment. I suggest RedAppleGP edits his post by making use of quotes like everyone else does it (the other in quotes, your comment at the main level).
User avatar
TheVeganAtheist
Site Admin
Posts: 824
Joined: Sun May 04, 2014 9:39 am
Diet: Vegan
Location: Canada

Re: GOD vs EVOLUTION

Post by TheVeganAtheist »

Volenta wrote:
TheVeganAtheist wrote:
RedAppleGP wrote: k
please avoid unnecessarily quoting previous comments as it fills pages of the thread with the same content.
It seems like RedAppleGP is responding to Ry4truth within the quote itself. This doesn't make it readable for others, but he didn't just quote a previous comment. I suggest RedAppleGP edits his post by making use of quotes like everyone else does it (the other in quotes, your comment at the main level).
you are right. I didnt see that within the quote were additional points.
Do you find the forum to be quiet and inactive?
- Do your part by engaging in new and old topics
- Don't wait for others to start NEW topics, post one yourself
- Invite family, friends or critics
User avatar
Red
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 3897
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 8:59 pm
Diet: Vegan
Location: To the Depths, in Degradation

Re: GOD vs EVOLUTION

Post by Red »

Sorry! I'm still trying to figure it out.. I'll get it eventually!
Learning never exhausts the mind.
-Leonardo da Vinci
Post Reply