GOD vs EVOLUTION

[miniboes]

I have had many supernatural experiences too. One day, I say three images during my sleep, like visions. The very same day, they all actually happened. Every time I have a déjà vu now, I question myself if I have actually dreamt it before, and most of the time the answer is yes.

This is retrospective memory editing, and it's actually fairly common.

Yeah, i've read about that, but I don't really think it applies here. It was not like, I had the déjà vu and then I was like 'what, I saw this before', but I was actually aware of the images before seeing them in real life.

Let me explain it like this; the way I understand retrospective memory editing is that there is no memory and then when the moment happens your brain screws up and somehow thinks the memory it just created was already there. What happened to me (it was only so clear once) is that I had the image (an image of one girl crying and another trying to calm her down and something else I don't remember) in mind and then it happened.

It's hard to explain and it might just be retrospective memory editing anyway; i might be completely wrong.

Now, I could declare myself some kind of psychic, but I have no way of proving I have these visions. They do not prove anything, as they are only in my mind.

Actually, you do.

....

Well, the images are way too vague to predict anything. For example, I'd see an image of my friend looking at me, but that could happen in so many situations it's impossible to predict anything with it.

Anyway, these details are all not very relevant to the original discussion.

[brimstoneSalad]

Let me explain it like this; the way I understand retrospective memory editing is that there is no memory and then when the moment happens your brain screws up and somehow thinks the memory it just created was already there.

That's how déjà vu works, something like a misfiring. But retrospective memory editing is where there was a memory which was kind of similar to what you saw, and then your brain edits it and makes it identical when you access it again; it's particularly relevant for witnesses to crimes, who will remember clearly the face of an innocent person if they see the person has been arrested by the police. If there's not a vague similarity, it won't work.

What happened to me (it was only so clear once) is that I had the image (an image of one girl crying and another trying to calm her down and something else I don't remember) in mind and then it happened.

This is something I see on a nearly daily basis, indeed nearly all of us see things like this every day if we go out. While we see them, we don't really notice them or register them unless we're looking for them.

If you had that image in your mind already, you would be hypersensitive to it, and you would pick out things that you see all of the time, but notice them.
And then, due to the similarity, the existing memory/image is edited to become identical to the thing you're seeing.

You may also be subject to a form of confirmation/memory bias, and in the case when these vague images aren't found in the day, you likely forget them entirely (and forget that you forgot them).

Well, the images are way too vague to predict anything. For example, I'd see an image of my friend looking at me, but that could happen in so many situations it's impossible to predict anything with it.

It sounds like your brain is just a bit overactive with this, and you're prone to fixate on these concepts until you find something similar, at which point they're edited to fill in a bunch of extra details in the scene and the exact expression.

The whole thing could also be an entirely false memory, though. Maybe even something somebody else reported happening to them.
We can remember entirely false events, although in this context it would be less likely, it's infinitely more likely than psychic powers of that kind, since information traveling back in time is logically impossible (it creates paradoxes).

Anyway, these details are all not very relevant to the original discussion.

True, but the original discussion isn't very relevant to the original discussion anyway, since it's just somebody ranting on with anti-atheist hate speech and refusing to address questions with civility. I admire your patience in responding to the poster though.
If he/she ever actually stops with the hateful rhetoric and answers questions honestly, I'd eat my hat. But I don't have a hat... so, I'd make a small hat out of tofu and eat that (close enough).

[miniboes]

I guess you're right. My dream of having superpowers is now officially crushed.

True, but the original discussion isn't very relevant to the original discussion anyway

True. So... What's your favorite color?

Also, you can find edible paper (as in tasty) in the supermarket and fold a paper hat.

[brimstoneSalad]

I guess you're right. My dream of having superpowers is now officially crushed.

I am the crusher of dreams.

True. So... What's your favorite color?

I'm partial to colors that don't exist, like the true "yellowish blue" (not green) that's created through an optical illusion by superimposing blue and yellow implicitly on a region of the eye that the brain has to reconstruct- because the nerve channels that carry color information to the brain don't permit yellow and blue simultaneously (we end up seeing grey instead when they cancel out).

I think that's just really cool.

Here's an article about it (also reddish green): http://www.livescience.com/17948-red-gr ... olors.html

Also, you can find edible paper (as in tasty) in the supermarket and fold a paper hat.

Hmm, I didn't think of that. Rice paper, right? Good idea. I could also use a sheet of nori or something, and make a seaweed hat. I'd have to eat that with something, though, since seaweed is a bit strong for me on its own.

[miniboes]

I'm partial to colors that don't exist, like the true "yellowish blue" (not green) that's created through an optical illusion by superimposing blue and yellow implicitly on a region of the eye that the brain has to reconstruct- because the nerve channels that carry color information to the brain don't permit yellow and blue simultaneously (we end up seeing grey instead when they cancel out).

I think that's just really cool.

Very cool indeed. I like green.

I do like me some deep conversations.

I just realized, this topic is called 'GOD vs EVOLUTION' but we have not talked about evolution for a sentence.

[Dino_ROAR]

I saw a documentary once about neurotheology (I think) where an Atheist had visions of hell. Instead of turning into a raving lunatic because he had subjective experiences of the supernatural, he was rational and went to a doctor, and it turned out he had some kind of tumor or other prefrontal cortex issue. I found that really admirable; even though his sense perception was deceiving him and he was hallucinating, he held onto his true sense and rationality.

Anybody know the one, and have a link?

Well I found this video on youtube

Wow what meningitis does to your brain.
One will also find more videos of near death experiences leading people to believe in god it's ridiculous!
Interesting series to watch "I survived: Beyond and Back"
You can also find some pretty silly videos on youtube of people tripping and in there reports saying they are no longer atheist or they now know that God does exists because while tripping they 'felt' or saw him...
Not everyone can handle hallucinates...

[TheVeganAtheist]

I have had many supernatural experiances, as well as many experiances with God. it would take me an hour to type it all. but no matter what i tell you, you won't believe me.

You have previously stated:
a) "God is real, heaven is real. I have seen it with my own eyes. And I have proof I can show you if you should request it."
and
b) "I will answer all of your questions like I said I would. "
and
c) "But I can give you evidence for his existence. As well as the existence of the divine. I have had many spiritual and supernatural experiences that science cannot explain."
and
d) "Your just upset because I destroyed atheism with my wisdom. I proved to all of you that your wrong, just like I said I would. "

Get on with it! If this evidence is so compelling it should convince us. If its not compelling, and only an argument from experience, then it is not surprising that it convinces no one but yourself.

But to dispell a belief without propper proof or evidence is hypocritical and childish

This already has been explained to you ad nauseam. You can't disprove almost anything, so the proper position to hold is disbelief until evidence is presented that warrants belief. If you believe without evidence, you are prone to believe in many false things.

If you actualy read the comments in response to my posts, you will see that I address each comment in a respectful and kind manner.

Lets look at the evidence (your previous comment) and see if this is true:
a) "it's called MATURITY learn it" (condescension)
b) "Let's all be adults about this. And stop wining." (condescension)
c) "We are all adults here, and its time you acted like it" (condescension)
d) "Atheists will argue that they can’t see God, and thus there can’t be a God. They couldn’t be more idiotic and ignorant." (ad hominem)
e)"I hope for your sake that you think before you type your responses. It’s just the smart thing to do." (condescension)
f) "ALL ATHEISTS ARE HYPOCRITS" (general non-substantiated ad hominem)
g) "it seams when you are called into question you cower like a dog in the rain." (ad hominem)
h)"You threaten to remove people from the website and maybe worse." (blatant lying. I have never threatened anyone from the website/forum/youtube channel)
i) "Don't be a hypocrite, practice what you preach." (ad hominem, red herring)
j) "The true Mark of a coward and a lair' is how he acts when questioned" you would do well to remeber this lesson. (condescension and ad hominem)
k) "Learn not to expect, but to appreciate what is given" (condescension)
l) "you are not educated." (condescension)
m) "there is nothing more annoying than ignorant, idiotic, hypocritical, stupid and especialy nasty or disrespecfull people." (implying that previous commenters are ignorant, idiotic, hypocritical and stupid- ad hominem)
n) "please dont criticise someone for grammer or something not important when you dont even know how the world works." (condescension)
o) "please think before you respond. " (condescension)

I think from this we can clearly see you have been anything but respectful to me and others on this forum. You keep apologizing yet nearly after finishing the words you say something condescending or untrue. How can anyone take your claim that you don't mean any harm/insult when you keep reinforcing it?

[miniboes]

ad nauseam

Thanks for adding this to my vocabulary. What an awesome term.

[Ry4truth]

PAY ATTENTION

This entire section is for those who don't seem to get it. every post i have put on this site is in response to the comments i recieved from my last posts. if its too hard for you to make a connection between your comments and my responses then you can't handle this forum or this site. EXAMPLE: if you mention cookies, and then i mention cookies in response to one of your posts then it must pertian to your comment. please use common sense when engaging someone on this topic.


WASTING MY TIME

Please dont waste my time by repeating your questions over and over agian. it just makes you look stupid. its a waste of my time to keep answering the same questions over and over agian. when i have already answered them.


ADDRESSING YOU

Please be patient when it comes to my responses. my family and i are going through alot right now. so i need to be there for them. i will do my best to answere you. but please dont be arrogant, as to "expect" an answere from me. that type of attitude wont help anyone.


IGNORANCE

Like i said before, please be factual and knowledgable about the issue you are engaging in. if you want to talk about science be knowledgable. becouse i have been studying science for a long time.

RESPONSES TO COMMENTS

From this point on in the post i will be answering and correcting your many comments. this entire section is for: the vegan atheist and any others who have posted comments or questions.

THE VEGAN ATHEIST

i have never been disrespectfull or condescending to you, or any other member of this site. there is no need for me to behave in such a manner. i wouldn't want to be talked to that way, so why would i do it to others?. i speak as a teacher would to his students. in a calm tone. just like how you talk in your videos. i could accuse you of being disrespectful and condescending in your videos. but playing games like that is stupid and pointless. simply because i tell you to become educated or to think before you respond . deosnt mean that i meant it disrespectfully. it simply means ive noticed you dont know what your talking about. and in an effort to assist you with gaining knowledge i have directed you to become more knowledgable, lest you end up looking like a fool. there is nothing wrong with that, please be mature about this and take it with a grain of salt. in truth your comments are more hurtfull than mine, but i dont call you out on it, because i don't play dirty. ive even admited that i was a big fan of your youtube channel. i still am, i think its great that you try to educate others with critical thinking.


HOW THE UNIVERSE WAS SUPPOSEDLY CREATED

this is in response to mini boes. Science tells us that the universe was created with the "big bang". but what deos that mean?. the "big bang" or as its scientificaly know as a" super nova explosion" is when a star dies and then explodes. thus scattering debris in all directions for millions of miles. but here's the problem with that story. Science tells us that all things must exist in the universe according to the laws of physics as well as albert einstiens 'theory of relativity". in which he explains that time and matter are relative to one another and not seperated as previusly thaught.
if we go by what modern science tells us it presents a problem. if there was no universe then there could be no matter, if there was no matter then there couldnt be no star, and if there was no star then there could be no explosion. or "big bang" as you put it. and if there was no big bang then there could be no universe. see what im talking about, this entire scenario is so contradictory to itself. that it cant possibly be trusted. your notion that the "big bang" disproves god, is untrue. i respectfully direct you to watch some documentarys pertianing to this matter. some great ones can be found on youtube. i know i have enjoyed them, i hope you will too.


WHAT IS DISRESPECT?
This section is for commentors who obviusly dont know what "hate speach" or being "condescending and "disrespectful" actualy mean. i will explain it to you here.

being disrespecfull means: cursing at someone, threatening someone, being angry towards someone. or calling someone names etc.

hate speach is this: when a person speaks in a manner that represents: anger, threats, or violence. hate is a strong word, please only use it when appropriate.

BE REASONABLE

just because i dissagree with you, and then educate you about an issue. thay deosnt make me a "disrespectfull, arrogant, or hatefull person. i call things how i see them, and if you are a coward or a lair i will expose that individual for what they really are. if i spot a hypocrite i will expose them for what they really are. just as the vegan atheist addresses the issues of religion etc. i address the issues of liars, hypocrits and yes, even idiots. please be reasonable and respectfull as i have been. if you have evidence or proof that can prove me wrong in anything i say, please present it.




RELIGION OR SCIENCE?

SCIENCE has been wrong many times in the past. and it will continue to wrong for a long time to come. But that deosnt mean it should be abandoned, it simply means it needs more time to mature and to gain new information. but putting so much faith in something so new and contradictory is a bit foolish.

RELIGION has been wrong many times in the past, just as it is wrong in todays world. but there are some really beuatifull things about religion. religion is dying, it deos not need anymore knives in its already feeble body. let it die on its own.

CONCUSION

unless you can prove something false, keep an open mind. that deosn't mean you have to agree with it. it simply means to keep an open mind. just think about all the things you could have been doing with the time you wasted on here blasting god. you couldve been: feeding the homeles, fighting corruption, inventing new solutions for the worlds problems. and helping those less fortunate than us. thats what i do everyday, thats part of the reason i dont respond till later on. im too busy helping my family and neighbors and the less fortunate. you could be doing the same. instead of devouting your energy to criticizing someone, use that energy to help those around you. be the change you want to see in the world, and strive to make that change a reality.

[brimstoneSalad]

Ignorance is no crime, it's the natural state of those who have not yet learned. Arrogance, even, I can tolerate and even at times respect when merited. But the two together are insufferable.

I'm hard pressed to tolerate morons like these who think they know a lot about science, and are arrogant about it, despite having been fed on a diet of watered down popsci which is borderline woo itself.

My kingdom for a respectful, humble, and intelligent theist who is worthy of debating!*

I haven't met one for years.

*I don't actually have a kingdom, but I'll make a tiny one out of tofu if such is required. Or, since I don't think that would send by post very well, I'll draw a little kingdom in Paint with my mouse, and send it by interwebs. It may not be a very tempting offer, but it's the best I can do at the moment.


Dino, it's amazing how ignorant people are of how their own brains work, isn't it? One can't help but wonder if a little skepticism of the validity of our own perceptions would be all that would be needed to put the world right. It's the basis of science, so maybe that says something.

VA, props man, you're patienter than I.
I'll think about where we can advertise to draw in some more intelligent theists... there are a few forums that deal with non-literalist spirituality/theology, they might have some people with an ounce of reason, but we'll have to find a way to filter out the idiots who think they're experts on science because they watched some TV show.
Do you think it would be fair to ask for only people who have either studied science at the university level, or will admit ignorance of science and stick to philosophy? Maybe that could even be a forum rule for theists? I don't know, it's tricky.

But maybe you can make a video on the topic?
I'm thinking one lamenting the lack of debate, and asking whether there are any respectful and intelligent theists left? It seems that all the rational ones are leaving theism in droves. I can almost swear it was easier to find an intelligent theist ten years ago.

Mini, I've found it's not very useful to discuss scientific topics in earnest with people who are contemptuous of science itself, or misunderstand it as fundamentally as the OP. I think the simpler more to the point questions you guys have been asking would be the way to go, if this guy was honest enough to answer them.
A more appropriate response at this point, though, is probably ignoring him for the rambling nut he is and talking about how to find more intelligent theists to join in for real discussion