Pissed off about Al Franken resignation

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Jebus
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Pissed off about Al Franken resignation

Post by Jebus »

Just watched Al Franken resign. WTF. Quite a few democrats seem upset about this so I really hope there will be political repercussions for those who pushed him out.

Let's get a few things straight. What Franken did is nowhere near as bad as what Roy Moore is accused of. What Franken did was motivated by humor and not by sex. In fact, I don't even think he should have apologized. The woman is wearing thick clothes and his hand barely touches the outside of her clothes. The fact that this was followed by multiple other accusations is not unexpected given the current political climate. Franken has denied all the other allegations.
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brimstoneSalad
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Re: Pissed off about Al Franken resignation

Post by brimstoneSalad »

I think it's a case of perceived hypocrisy, and I think people are reacting more strongly due to the disappointment because he was a feminist, whereas the Republicans don't hold such standards (boys will be boys) and can get away with more with their bases.

I don't hold politicians to high standards like that, BUT I can understand when their bases do since they kind of set themselves up for it. It's a shame, he was one of the good ones.

Weiner was a bit more of a problem.
Jamie in Chile
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Re: Pissed off about Al Franken resignation

Post by Jamie in Chile »

To resign was the correct decision in my view. There are multiple accusers of random groping. Of clear sexual assault, unless they were all lying.

The fact that this was followed by multiple other accusations is the normal pattern. It has happened in many other cases including Kevin Spacey for instance. It is not fair to use this pattern to apparently imply that the other accusations are made up. They could all be, but they are probably not.

The photo isn't great either. Whatever the truth of the other allegations the photo doesn't look great.

Also look at Franken's denials. If all the allegations were completely false, the denials were likely be more along the lines of "this did not happen!" rather than "hm I don't remember too clearly the exact details" or whatever he said. Can't be bothered to look at the exact quotes. To me, his semi denials can be read as semi acceptance.

The fact that the Republicans are worse is not much of an argument for the democrats to do the same. The democrats get to keep the seat and retain the moral high ground. This will work out for them OK in the long run when they can call for others to resign more confidently.
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Jebus
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Re: Pissed off about Al Franken resignation

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Jamie in Chile wrote: Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:45 pmIt is not fair to use this pattern to apparently imply that the other accusations are made up. They could all be, but they are probably not.
I don't see why you would assume that. I think there were seven allegations. As the only democrat currently accused, I would expect a lot more even if such never happened.
Jamie in Chile wrote: Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:45 pmThe photo isn't great either. Whatever the truth of the other allegations the photo doesn't look great.
It was really stupid of a politician to put himself in a photo like that. However, he has been accused of sexual misconduct and the photo does not imply such.
Jamie in Chile wrote: Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:45 pmAlso look at Franken's denials. If all the allegations were completely false, the denials were likely be more along the lines of "this did not happen!" rather than "hm I don't remember too clearly the exact details" or whatever he said. Can't be bothered to look at the exact quotes. To me, his semi denials can be read as semi acceptance.
He said “Some of the allegations against me are simply not true. Others I remember differently,” He also said that his previous apologies had given "the false impression" that he was admitting guilt.
Jamie in Chile wrote: Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:45 pmThe fact that the Republicans are worse is not much of an argument for the democrats to do the same. The democrats get to keep the seat and retain the moral high ground. This will work out for them OK in the long run when they can call for others to resign more confidently.
,

They did this to make a point that will give them the moral upper hand when discussing Trump and Moore, but in so doing it cost them one of their MVPs and potential future votes from Franken supporters.
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PsYcHo
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Re: Pissed off about Al Franken resignation

Post by PsYcHo »

Jebus wrote: Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:44 am What Franken did is nowhere near as bad as what Roy Moore is accused of.
Agreed, but....

Let's consider an alternate scenario. In this one, Franken actually did nothing at all. Moore did what Franken is accused of.

Do you seriously believe Franken (and many others) wouldn't use it to attack Moore?

If you have two people, one accused of rape, the other accused of grabbing a handful of a non-consenting person's ass, sure the rapist is the worst of the two.

But the ass-grabber only seems less guilty if you use a comparison. They still did something horrible, and should be held accountable.
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Jebus
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Re: Pissed off about Al Franken resignation

Post by Jebus »

PsYcHo wrote: Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:10 pmThey still did something horrible, and should be held accountable.
I personally don't think that what either of them is accused of is horrible. However, I am familiar with the American psyche which is generally unable to differentiate between an ephebophile and a child molesting pedophile and under this psyche what Moore is accused of is a lot worse than what Franken is accused of. I'm pretty sure American law supports that as well.
How to become vegan in 4.5 hours:
1.Watch Forks over Knives (Health)
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3. Watch Earthlings (Ethics)
Congratulations, unless you are a complete idiot you are now a vegan.
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