rape culture

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Gregor Samsa
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rape culture

Post by Gregor Samsa » Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:51 am

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DOP99Y8WsAEWnT0.jpg

This is doing its rounds around twitter. Seems to me proponents of rape culture never take the notion to its logical conclusion. If mens overrepresentation relative to women is evidence of rape culture then surely we can do the same calculation with other groups as well. As a Swede I happen to know that rape is more prevalent within men of certain immigrant-groups compared to ethnic swedish men, so why isn't rape culture considered to be more prevalent in those groups? After all, it makes perfect sense that people who come from some of the least developed and most anti-women parts of the world would carry additional baggage compared to the context most Swedish boys grow up into (and this happens to be reflected in the statistics).

Is rape culture a valid characterization at all? Does it make sense to talk about something as a major cultural influence if it's something only a small portion of the population engages in? Would it make sense to talk about a "movie culture" if only a few percent of the population ever watch movies? Is this different?

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Jebus
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Post by Jebus » Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:26 pm

Gregor Samsa wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:51 am
I happen to know that rape is more prevalent within men of certain immigrant-groups compared to ethnic swedish men
Not that it would surprise me but how do you know that for sure? Have any studies been done on this and if so how? The Swedish police won't release demographic statistics on criminals. I guess one could survey rape victims but that has ethical implications. Even if a study were to be done would it still hold true once age and income were controlled for.
Gregor Samsa wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:51 am
so why isn't rape culture considered to be more prevalent in those groups?
Because the same people who like to victimize women like to victimize minorities.
Gregor Samsa wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:51 am
After all, it makes perfect sense that people who come from some of the least developed and most anti-women parts of the world would carry additional baggage compared to the context most Swedish boys grow up into (and this happens to be reflected in the statistics).
That and the fact that they are probably on average rejected more by Swedish women
Gregor Samsa wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:51 am
Is rape culture a valid characterization at all? Does it make sense to talk about something as a major cultural influence if it's something only a small portion of the population engages in?
No, it doesn't make sense. It's a ridiculous term.
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brimstoneSalad
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Post by brimstoneSalad » Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:42 pm

"Rape culture" would seem to refer to broad cultural support of rape, but that's obviously false in developed countries.
There are literal rape cultures where rape is a right of passage for men and it's encouraged or required, or there were (I don't know if they still exist).

There are places in Africa which may to some degree be rape cultures, due to the culturally encouraged and supported rape of lesbians to "fix them".

Not even the least overt cases of rape are supported in developed countries, though.

The closest to indifference comes from invalid consent while intoxicated, and that's a good conversation to have; if you become drunk by your own will or negligence, you're responsible for what happens (including vehicular homicide), but some people are given alcohol without consent through trickery (like making drinks stronger than they were supposed to be, or refilling something while somebody isn't looking) and that's an important thing that the general public needs to have a better understanding of because it would change the perception of victimhood in those cases (it's less the sex that is at issue as the choice to become intoxicated which makes everything that follows not valid in terms of consent, which turns that sex into rape when it otherwise wouldn't be).

I don't think that's so much rape culture as certain men getting away with deception and the broader population not being fully aware of what's going on.

Gregor Samsa
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Post by Gregor Samsa » Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:40 am

Jebus wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:26 pm
Gregor Samsa wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:51 am
I happen to know that rape is more prevalent within men of certain immigrant-groups compared to ethnic swedish men
Not that it would surprise me but how do you know that for sure? Have any studies been done on this and if so how? The Swedish police won't release demographic statistics on criminals. I guess one could survey rape victims but that has ethical implications. Even if a study were to be done would it still hold true once age and income were controlled for
There have been plenty of studies on immigration and crime in Sweden. They just all happen to be over a decade old, however all the groups that where the most overrepresented have increased their share in terms of immigration, not the opposite, so if anything the statistics would be worse now. Controlling for socioeconomic background did not even remove a majority of the overrepresentation in the latest big study, and would of course even if true only be a mechanism by which immigration increases the number of rapes.

Second I wasn't aware of rape culture proponents controlling for age and income when generalizing about men, so what's the difference between men as a whole and specific subsets of men that warrants the different treatment? If anything being more specific seems more pertinent when talking about 50% of the population as opposed to when one talks about say 3%.

I guess what I'm getting at is that you either have to accept that you're a racist (I wouldn't make that claim, but I'm pretty sure proponents of rape culture would) or you have to accept that rape culture is too poorly defined or you have to actually define it in such a way that explains why calculating prevalence of rape culture from incidence of rape is warranted in the "men - women" context but not in the "men of group A vs Men of group B" context.

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Jebus
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Post by Jebus » Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:57 am

Gregor Samsa wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:40 am
I wasn't aware of rape culture proponents controlling for age and income when generalizing about men, so what's the difference between men as a whole and specific subsets of men that warrants the different treatment?
It is not relevant with regards to "rape culture." Question was made with regards to rape overrepresentation among immigrants living in Sweden.
Gregor Samsa wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:40 am
I guess what I'm getting at is that you either have to accept that you're a racist (I wouldn't make that claim, but I'm pretty sure proponents of rape culture would) or you have to accept that rape culture is too poorly defined or you have to actually define it in such a way that explains why calculating prevalence of rape culture from incidence of rape is warranted in the "men - women" context but not in the "men of group A vs Men of group B" context.
I would throw the whole "rape culture" idea out the door. Proponents of it would most likely ignore any demographic differences among men when describing "the problem".
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Post by Mick Peslo » Thu Oct 25, 2018 9:33 am

Having served with my nations defence forces on fourteen deployments to the middle east and Afghanistan I can well and truly confirm the notion of "man love friday" is a very real thing and involves males of well below voting age. I would suggest it may be seen as a cultural behaviour as opposed to a religious bent (however its a well known fact as confirmed in the Koran that Mo' had a thing for young girls - having married his wife when she was six and consumatted it when she was nine - and as a result requiring all females to shave their nether regions in order to submit to their particular religious teachings)

Service personnel within the 5 eyes community serving in Afghanistan were routinely ordered not to take photographic or video evidence or take personal intervention of pedophile behaviour observed within arabic and indian/shri lankan military personnel in order to maintain the "Coalition of the willing".

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Post by Margaret Robinson » Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:22 am

Rape culture describes the broad social support for men dominating women's bodies. For example, an enormous number of mainstream American films support the idea that men should ignore women's expressed disinterest and continue to pursue them until they "win" her and get sex. I worked in a video store for 10 years. You'd be shocked by how many male heroes rape someone in mainstream films (for a super short list: https://www.ranker.com/list/beloved-mov ... ob-shelton).

Rape culture also describes how moral values broadly support sexual assault, such as the fact that so few rapists are charged, that so few charges are successfully prosecuted, that people revictimize the person who's been raped, blaming them for the incident. That broad social and systemic support for rape is why we needed a term like "rape cuture."

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Jebus
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Post by Jebus » Sun Dec 09, 2018 9:43 am

Margaret Robinson wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:22 am
You'd be shocked by how many male heroes rape someone in mainstream films (for a super short list: https://www.ranker.com/list/beloved-mov ... ob-shelton).
Save me, Jebus. That must have been the most ridiculous thing I've seen this year.
Margaret Robinson wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:22 am
Rape culture also describes how moral values broadly support sexual assault, such as the fact that so few rapists are charged, that so few charges are successfully prosecuted,
A few questions come to mind:

Are rape convictions fewer compared to other crimes when there are no other people present in the room?

What is the man-woman rape conviction rape compared to man-man rape or female-man rape? You should demonstrate that there is a difference as you wrote "Rape culture describes the broad social support for men dominating women's bodies" and then attempt to back this statement up with the fact that so few rapists are charged and successfully prosecuted.
Margaret Robinson wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:22 am
people revictimize the person who's been raped, blaming them for the incident
What do you mean by "people"?

People believe that the earth is flat.
Margaret Robinson wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:22 am
That broad social and systemic support for rape is why we needed a term like "rape cuture."
I still don't understand why we need such a ridiculous term. Nothing you wrote in this post made any sense to me.
How to become vegan in 4.5 hours:
1.Watch Forks over Knives (Health)
2.Watch Cowspiracy (Environment)
3. Watch Earthlings (Ethics)
Congratulations, unless you are a complete idiot you are now a vegan.

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