https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BtzOhQCJfw
Please share your thoughts on this video, and on antinatalism in general. If you read what I have to say and take it into consideration, then I appreciate that as well.
I'm very worried about the damage that the ideology of antinatalism could have upon the vegan movement, especially when it's promoted by vegan activists with large social platforms, such as Vegan Gains (who had ~303,000 subscribers, as of November 10, 2017). This ideology is likely very off-putting to quite a lot of nonvegans, and could make it more difficult for them to consider going vegan, if they see antinatalism promoted as something consistent with vegan moral philosophy. In addition to the pragmatic dangers of vegan activists promoting antinatalism, there is also the matter of whether or not this ideology is actually valid.
Now I'll respond to some points from the video:
No, not necessarily. In order to prove this, she'd need to first demonstrate that it's impossible for parents to produce children who have can have a net positive impact on the world (on the rest of humankind, animals, and the environment).At 5:27, Jasmine said, not wrote:Having children is selfish.
I've noticed a common mindset among antinatalists, that producing children involves many problems which can be avoided by adopting children. Therefore, surely it is more moral for people to adopt rather than produce children.At 5:29, Jasmine said, not wrote:There are so many children that don't have any home or parents, just fucking adopt!
This notion is only true if the net effect of adopting (pros vs. cons) is better than the net effect of procreation (pros vs. cons). Antinatalists like Jasmine have a tendency to compare the cons of procreation to the pros of either adopting or living childless. Unfortunately, they do so without mentioning the pros of procreation, cons of adoption, nor cons of not having any children. To be fair, Jasmine did mention that adoption is expensive, but not much else.
brimstoneSalad, you've mentioned some of the benefits of procreation and problems of adoption. Is it OK with you if I link them here? I hope so.
http://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3508&hilit=mizen&start=10
First off, not all people who breed, despite awareness of the negative impact that this can have, do so anyways because they feel self-entitled. Some people who want to produce children are aware of both positive and negative consequences that doing so can have. Such people might end up deciding that producing children can actually do more good than bad, depending on how they raise them.At 5:36, Jasmine said, not wrote:We're overpopulated, why the fuck do you feel so self-entitled to breed? Especially when you're vegan! When you're already aware of what the hell is going on with our planet. It's so selfish! There's no way you can justify having a child at this moment because we're so overpopulated right now.
I think it's especially unreasonable to insist that vegans have some sort of "even greater" responsibility to not produce children, as if it's even worse when vegans do it. Ironically, well-informed ethical-vegans who value science and environmentalism might actually be very good potential parents, who might be able to raise their children to have a net-positive impact on the world.
If potential "breeders" (as Jasmine & Richard call them) want to produce children who can have a net-positive impact upon the world, then I think that there are some measures which parents can take to make this happen:
-Raise them vegan. Provide them with a delicious, healthy, and richly-varied diet based mostly upon legumes, grains, and vegetables; with some fruits, nuts, seeds, and vitamin-B12 supplementation. A healthy vegan diet for children not only minimizes their negative effects upon animals and the environment, but also allows them to show nonvegan children how healthy and viable such a diet can be. Nonvegan peers might be inspired to progress to a vegan diet themselves if they see it done right, and realize that if they do so, they can better practice their innate compassion towards animals (which children tend to have, maybe more so than adults).
-Encourage them to be kind and informative to their nonvegan peers. This can improve the chances that they have for being a good influence on others (in terms of environmentalism, as well as practicing compassion towards animals).
-Raise them to practice environmentalism. Teach them the importance of recycling, avoiding food-waste & water-waste, and minimizing usage of (fossil-fueled) motorized transport (especially for nonessential purposes).
-Encourage them to be passionate about science! Teach them about how fascinating and important STEM careers are!
-Anything else? Please share your ideas!
I see a lot more problems with Jasmine & Richard's video, as well as with antinatalism in general. However, my initial post here is already quite long and I want to encourage others to respond.