Do you believe in self-ownership?

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BrianBlackwell
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Re: Do you believe in self-ownership?

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NonZeroSum wrote: Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:46 amNo, you have a philosophy which is staunchly egoist and solipsistic and project that onto everyone else, until you take the time to properly understand other peoples systems of philosophy, discussion with you isn't going to be worth anyone's time.
...you solipsistically don't vote to allay evil, don't give to charity, believe in wackjob conspiracies, carry on paying for the slaughter of animals, and because your intuition about what system of organisation/governance would benefit the country when you did chose between Al Gore and Bush was a complete imbecile who couldn't get enough of bloodshed in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Any faux-philosophical discussion between you and me is over; and once I'm done defending against false allegations with Brim, I'm done with him too. So let's continue with what this really is -- an ad hominem clusterfuck.

I am sick to death of you condescending, hypocritical fucks thinking you're angels and everyone else is a rabid animal, simply because you're vegan. You and Brim are not philosophers; philosophy is just the means by which you justify your own feeling of enlightened superiority. People committed to ideas focus their attention on ideas; but both of you take every opportunity to make it personal. Who gives a fuck if I'm an idiotic, blood-hungry monster? I am not the topic of the discussion. You cleverly try to wrap your insults in false pretenses, making it sound like my personal character is relevant because my "lack of readiness" for an enlightened society is the reason why you condone a murderous organized crime syndicate, but it's pathetically transparent. What you're about is looking down on other people for not sharing your views, and the intellectual facade just makes it all the more cowardly.

Take down your stupid snail; you're a communist, not an anarchist. You don't get to choose when you think I'm ready for freedom. I don't care what your reasons are; every time you vote you're saying, "I know you will slaughter people in my name, and use my money to do it. I know you will forcibly rob everyone around me, and claim ownership over them -- even those I claim to love -- and I am supporting you in doing so." And I'm the monster, right? What a load of hypocritical horse shit.
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NonZeroSum
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Re: Do you believe in self-ownership?

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BrianBlackwell wrote: Sat Sep 30, 2017 10:18 amWho gives a fuck if I'm an idiotic, blood-hungry monster? I am not the topic of the discussion. You cleverly try to wrap your insults in false pretenses, making it sound like my personal character is relevant because my "lack of readiness" for an enlightened society is the reason why you condone a murderous organized crime syndicate, but it's pathetically transparent.
You brought character into it as a census of who is ready for anarchism, your actions show you value something unfree, you're only in it for yourself and I don't believe anarchism is desirable without an incentive against race war to which you don't have. You think you're standing up for something noble by not voting, yet because the organisation isn't there to adequately transition to anarchism all you're doing is saying I'd be fine with unending chaotic race war and gang warfare tomorrow: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-brazil-violence-espirito-santo/over-100-dead-in-brazil-state-amid-anarchy-spurred-by-police-strike-idUSKBN15O1ZT
BrianBlackwell wrote: Sat Sep 30, 2017 10:18 amTake down your stupid snail; you're a communist, not an anarchist. You don't get to choose when you think I'm ready for freedom. I don't care what your reasons are; every time you vote you're saying, "I know you will slaughter people in my name, and use my money to do it. I know you will forcibly rob everyone around me, and claim ownership over them -- even those I claim to love -- and I am supporting you in doing so."
I consistently vote for the party that I know statistically will be the furthest away from that, you are the only one to have done that with Bush, or you have been too stupid to see a difference, so you don't vote.
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AMP3083
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Re: Do you believe in self-ownership?

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NonZeroSum wrote: Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:40 amDoes your belief in your right mean anything, yes if you have the determination to follow it to it's end, if your passion is making the system of house aquesition work for more people:
I'm not "more people", I'm AMP3083, just an individual. May I build my house on that unoccupied land without government interference? That is literally ME deciding for myself what to do with my own mind and body.

This builder seems to be doing ok avoiding government: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbbbQMaQDgE
I don't assume so no.
Ok fine, but I would. Wouldn't you? There's lots of pot holes on the street where you and many other people commute to work everyday. Won't you voluntarily donate to that charity that help fixes roads?
Something I can't avoid if I want to work to support my family & friends, something I can limit by allaying the most evil when there is a clear middle ground between what I want and what's on offer.
Of course, and I sympathize for you cuz it's something I can't avoid either. But I just want some honesty here. If our tax dollars are going to places we don't like then we're ALL still part of the problem (vegan or otherwise), and that's something I want vegans to openly admit.
Last edited by AMP3083 on Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Do you believe in self-ownership?

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BrianBlackwell wrote: Sat Sep 30, 2017 10:18 am
NonZeroSum wrote: Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:46 amNo, you have a philosophy which is staunchly egoist and solipsistic and project that onto everyone else, until you take the time to properly understand other peoples systems of philosophy, discussion with you isn't going to be worth anyone's time.
...you solipsistically don't vote to allay evil, don't give to charity, believe in wackjob conspiracies, carry on paying for the slaughter of animals, and because your intuition about what system of organisation/governance would benefit the country when you did chose between Al Gore and Bush was a complete imbecile who couldn't get enough of bloodshed in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Any faux-philosophical discussion between you and me is over; and once I'm done defending against false allegations with Brim, I'm done with him too. So let's continue with what this really is -- an ad hominem clusterfuck.

I am sick to death of you condescending, hypocritical fucks thinking you're angels and everyone else is a rabid animal, simply because you're vegan. You and Brim are not philosophers; philosophy is just the means by which you justify your own feeling of enlightened superiority. People committed to ideas focus their attention on ideas; but both of you take every opportunity to make it personal. Who gives a fuck if I'm an idiotic, blood-hungry monster? I am not the topic of the discussion. You cleverly try to wrap your insults in false pretenses, making it sound like my personal character is relevant because my "lack of readiness" for an enlightened society is the reason why you condone a murderous organized crime syndicate, but it's pathetically transparent. What you're about is looking down on other people for not sharing your views, and the intellectual facade just makes it all the more cowardly.

Take down your stupid snail; you're a communist, not an anarchist. You don't get to choose when you think I'm ready for freedom. I don't care what your reasons are; every time you vote you're saying, "I know you will slaughter people in my name, and use my money to do it. I know you will forcibly rob everyone around me, and claim ownership over them -- even those I claim to love -- and I am supporting you in doing so." And I'm the monster, right? What a load of hypocritical horse shit.
Can't win'em all, B. The vegan egos clashing with each other on YT is self-explanatory. Meat eaters don't need to actually say anything about vegan's character in general, they'll say it to each other. AY & Brim are a perfect example, I don't take either side but they're both right about each other. Is that drama a waste of time on this forum? Not if you think it makes for good entertainment. haha

Zero, I don't care who you vote for next time. Just make sure he or she doesn't fuck anything up.
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NonZeroSum
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Re: Do you believe in self-ownership?

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AMP3083 wrote: Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:35 pm
NonZeroSum wrote: Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:40 amDoes your belief in your right mean anything, yes if you have the determination to follow it to it's end, if your passion is making the system of house aquesition work for more people:
I'm not "more people", I'm AMP3083, just an individual. May I build my house on that unoccupied land without government interference? That is literally ME deciding for myself what to do with my own mind and body.
So you don't care about changing the status quo for everyone then, just yourself, I already said if that's the case build covertly, no it's not fair. If it's a right you care about more than just you having then you organize, dedicate time and energy building up your skills in the areas I gave as examples, care work, logistics of a charity foundation, architecture, etc.
AMP3083 wrote: Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:35 pmThis builder seems to be doing ok avoiding government: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbbbQMaQDgE
Guy in the video Mika Raila wrote:I don't have a license to drive, and I'm more than happy continuing doing that, because they pull me over and they know they can't do anything, you have to have a license to be charged, charging instrument. . . If I couldn't build I'd probably just teach law. . .
Idiot... http://www.stcatharinesstandard.ca/2010/10/20/free-man-of-the-land-convicted-in-court
AMP3083 wrote: Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:35 pmOk fine, but I would. Wouldn't you? There's lots of pot holes on the street where you and many other people commute to work everyday. Won't you voluntarily donate to that charity that help fixes roads?
It's not clear, under an anarchy that Brian wants to stand on principle for you might be too afraid to go outside for the race war carnage, so no I wouldn't be donating to charity in that circumstance.
AMP3083 wrote: Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:35 pm Of course, and I sympathize for you cuz it's something I can't avoid either. But I just want some honesty here. If our tax dollars are going to places we don't like then we're ALL still part of the problem (vegan or otherwise), and that's something I want vegans to openly admit.
It depends, if you can show receipts for having donated what you hid from the taxman to a top rated charity or hospital, then I wouldn't consider you a bad person, but there needs to be consistency a government can expect in order to pay the public employees staffing those hospitals, as I said before I'm not okay with people making profit off the sweat of other people's labour then hiding it all abroad.

It all comes down to whether you're willing to study and be a practical force for change or do nothing and just assert that things should be different without actually providing any proof of how they could be better.
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Re: Do you believe in self-ownership?

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NonZeroSum wrote: Sat Sep 30, 2017 9:56 pmSo you don't care about changing the status quo for everyone then, just yourself, I already said if that's the case build covertly, no it's not fair. If it's a right you care about more than just you having then you organize, dedicate time and energy building up your skills in the areas I gave as examples, care work, logistics of a charity foundation, architecture, etc.
I do care - in the form of education through YouTube. Look at my channel and realize the amount of positive feedback I get. We can't deny this as there are many people who have used this platform to learn about and transition to anarchy, as well as veganism.
I don't necessarily agree driving without a license, but he did decide to do what he wants with his mind and body and doesn't appeared to have harmed anyone. The government interfering was my point exactly. Plus, at least the guy is consistent: https://www.facebook.com/sirmika.sovereign?fref=ufi
It's not clear, under an anarchy that Brian wants to stand on principle for you might be too afraid to go outside for the race war carnage, so no I wouldn't be donating to charity in that circumstance.
If you mean his discussion in the other thread with Brim then I can't comment on that cuz I haven't read through it yet.
It depends, if you can show receipts for having donated what you hid from the taxman to a top rated charity or hospital, then I wouldn't consider you a bad person, but there needs to be consistency a government can expect in order to pay the public employees staffing those hospitals, as I said before I'm not okay with people making profit off the sweat of other people's labour then hiding it all abroad.
Here's the thing I'm saying about taxes: I am against the current system of taxation, as the very idea of it is thievery and slavery. I believe taxation should be completely voluntary. All tax payers should have several options of charities they choose to donate their money. In addition, tax payers should be provided clear evidence that their money is successfully achieved by their chosen charity, and that it is being used as intended.

Btw,
I consistently vote for the party that I know statistically will be the furthest away from that
It's like a slave saying...
I didn't like our last master because he used to whip us everyday. I want to vote for a nicer master who will whip us less.
You're still engulfed in that slave mentality. Larken Rose destroyed this argument already and even Mark Passio, who is a vegan, would agree.
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Re: Do you believe in self-ownership?

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Larken Rose doesn't believe in evolution.
Mark Passio is a run of the mill conspiracy nut who promotes David Icke.
Mike Rasila fear mongers vaccines, encourages driving and doing electrics without passing any tests.

These aren't rational people, I can listen to them and understand the appeal of their ideology, but they're never going to make change happen or convince the masses. If you on your channel get people thinking about veganism and how to not let bosses get them down great, but I don't see a movement for social and political change from the ancap side, I just see conspiracy nuts and rhetoric.

Actually one guy is proof that confused agorists who listened to Larken can be a stepping stone to mutualism so there is that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVS8p-_AjXk
Last edited by NonZeroSum on Sun Oct 01, 2017 10:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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BrianBlackwell
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Re: Do you believe in self-ownership?

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NonZeroSum wrote: Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:03 pmI consistently vote for the party that I know statistically will be the furthest away from that...
If you think there's even the slightest shred of hope in either of the two major parties, you're fast asleep and completely blind to the nature of the con. And despite all your justifications, you have no way of refuting the fact that when you push that button, you're saying exactly what I indicated above... all in the name of doing something good. At least when I eat meat, I don't pretend I'm being a hero.
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Re: Do you believe in self-ownership?

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AMP3083 wrote: Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:43 pm Can't win'em all, B.
No, not when the ideas being presented are completely side-stepped with irrelevant justifications and blatant ad hominem dismissals like this:
NonZeroSum wrote: Sun Oct 01, 2017 10:40 am Larken Rose doesn't believe in evolution.
Mark Passio is a run of the mill conspiracy nut who promotes David Icke.
Mike Rasila fear mongers vaccines, encourages driving and doing electrics without passing any tests.
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Re: Do you believe in self-ownership?

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BrianBlackwell wrote: Sun Oct 01, 2017 10:47 am
NonZeroSum wrote: Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:03 pmI consistently vote for the party that I know statistically will be the furthest away from that...
If you think there's even the slightest shred of hope in either of the two major parties, you're fast asleep and completely blind to the nature of the con. And despite all your justifications, you have no way of refuting the fact that when you push that button, you're saying exactly what I indicated above... all in the name of doing something good. At least when I eat meat, I don't pretend I'm being a hero.
Did I say I was putting hope in the party? No, different legislation is more or less likely to happen depending on which party you for, if you are in 100% disagreement with that you are just in complete denial of the last 100s of years of representative democracy, I'm not saying it's perfect, I'm saying you're an idiot for not taking an hour out of your day when there are millions of non-anarchists lining up to vote for something worse among the options which could do with countering.
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