Do you believe in self-ownership?

General philosophy message board for Discussion and debate on other philosophical issues not directly related to veganism. Metaphysics, religion, theist vs. atheist debates, politics, general science discussion, etc.
User avatar
NonZeroSum
Master of the Forum
Posts: 1159
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2017 6:30 am
Diet: Vegan
Location: North Wales, UK

Re: Do you believe in self-ownership?

Post by NonZeroSum »

BrianBlackwell wrote: Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:56 am
NonZeroSum wrote: No worries, was overly optimistic of you having a fall from grace, as in you holding some rationality in the first place.
Is that your way of saying you made a mistake?
Yes I was mistakenly over optimistic of you having some clarity of mind... Are you afraid of having a working model of society that is open to revision (mistakes)? You promote pseudoscience, write about insane conspiracy theories, assert that it should be every man for himself without any ability to compare organization theory, and you don't see any problem with any of that because being you have cemented yourself firmly in an unfalsifiable position of believing morality is whatever you want it to be, because we're eternal beings that don't have the answers unless we mong out on Terence McKenna right? As unfalsifiable as the Easter Bunny, you don't care about being proven wrong or right, just pushing a feels right narrative.
Last edited by NonZeroSum on Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
Unofficial librarian of vegan and socialist movement media.
PhiloVegan Wiki: https://tinyurl.com/y7jc6kh6
Vegan Video Library: https://tinyurl.com/yb3udm8x
Ishkah YouTube: https://youtube.com/Ishkah
BrianBlackwell
Junior Member
Posts: 87
Joined: Wed May 17, 2017 9:37 am
Diet: Vegan

Re: Do you believe in self-ownership?

Post by BrianBlackwell »

NonZeroSum wrote: Thu Oct 05, 2017 3:44 am
BrianBlackwell wrote: Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:56 am
NonZeroSum wrote: No worries, was overly optimistic of you having a fall from grace, as in you holding some rationality in the first place.
Is that your way of saying you made a mistake?
Yes I was mistakenly over optimistic of you having some clarity of mind... Are you afraid of having a working model of society that is open to revision (mistakes) such that you dress everything up in solipsistic nobody can or should attempt to produce working models of what is right in front of their face?
I'll try to have clarity of mind if you'll try to have clarity of speech -- I asked who the Brian was that you were quoting and still haven't gotten an answer, unless there's one hidden in all this nonsense. I can't speak with you about society or anything like that, because I believe participants in these conversations should be mutually earnest in their desire to get to the root truth of the matter, and I've lost my faith in our ability to do that together.
User avatar
AMP3083
Junior Member
Posts: 62
Joined: Thu May 11, 2017 2:43 pm
Diet: Meat-Eater

Re: Do you believe in self-ownership?

Post by AMP3083 »

I couldn't quite get what he was saying either. Why do most of the things he says have to be cryptic? Plus, I don't think Zero has ever answered the thread question DIRECTLY nor has he outright admitted that we are all still part of the problem, as I tried to get him to do this on page 2. I've said the same thing about taxation to other vegans in the YT comments, and while they sounded sympathetic, none of them outright admitted that we are all still part of the problem. All I get is the runaround.
you don't care about being proven wrong or right, just pushing a feels right narrative.
Not true. I read a ton of Brian's convos, and I can tell you he's nothing like that at all. He's extremely patient with his partners in discourse, but even he has his limits, as evident on this forum. You're still making this about him despite the fact that he called you out on it...
BrianBlackwell wrote:I am not the topic of the discussion.
-(page 2)

... and the more you do that, the more the discussion drifts far from the actual topic. Come on Zero, cut it out and be honest. Read the thread title again and again and stick with it. If a fight is what you're looking for, then you're in the right community - the vegan community. Go and tough talk Isaac, I'm sure he can give you a much bloodier fight.
User avatar
AMP3083
Junior Member
Posts: 62
Joined: Thu May 11, 2017 2:43 pm
Diet: Meat-Eater

Re: Do you believe in self-ownership?

Post by AMP3083 »

Philosophy of Voluntaryism Ep 01: Self Ownership
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4VPEIqwnC8
User avatar
AMP3083
Junior Member
Posts: 62
Joined: Thu May 11, 2017 2:43 pm
Diet: Meat-Eater

Re: Do you believe in self-ownership?

Post by AMP3083 »

An Important Message To The Voting Cattle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbmajQ2C7m4
User avatar
NonZeroSum
Master of the Forum
Posts: 1159
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2017 6:30 am
Diet: Vegan
Location: North Wales, UK

Re: Do you believe in self-ownership?

Post by NonZeroSum »

AMP3083 wrote: Sat Oct 07, 2017 5:12 pm An Important Message To The Voting Cattle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbmajQ2C7m4
'Howl' by Allen Ginsberg (with subtitles) - HQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lM9BMVFpk80

^Same evocative imagery without the calling all voters war criminals shtick.

Last time anarchists tried to change the world by example and hoping for the best:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXlHGseyvfw

Again it's noble minded, but without a majority it's not going get anyone anywhere, you just get added to the apathy statistic, join the anarchist tradition that advocates spoiling your ballot when there is legitimately no option between two party representatives that will affect change to lessen suffering, at least then people can actually see a difference between the apathetic and the pissed off.

Got a message asking for references introducing anarchism and where it crosses over with veganism, here's the run down:

Anarchism is about aiming for a society where all power is justified in the informed consent of autonomous individuals and communities.

Anarchist intro videos:

Intro to Anarchy: Power & Violence | Philosophy Tube
https://youtu.be/bCAUmh99hMI
The history of Anarchism in 8 minutes | BadMouseProductions
https://youtu.be/6YitdjMORoU

Anarchism and Veganism videos:

What Do Anarchists Think About Animal Liberation?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvEBa2PgO-w
Why Veganism Must be Anti-Capitalist (NOW!!) | My VegFest Talk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbT2y8VR7WE

Anarchist Vegan Social centre:
http://www.veggies.org.uk/campaigns/sumac-centre/

Feeding the Masses: A Guide to Mass Vegan Catering:
http://www.eco-action.org/teapot/guide%20to%20mass%20catering.pdf

Anarchist threads:

Anarchism: Ethics and Meta-Ethics (Benjamin Franks)
- http://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&p=32706#p327064
Can Franks’ Practical Anarchism Avoid Moral Relativism? by Thomas Swann
- http://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=3329
Virtue and Utopia (Andy Blunden)
- http://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?t=3342
Agamben Homo Sacer animatic (Tommie Soro video)
- http://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=3353
Post Anarchist and Radical Politics today by Saul Newman
- http://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=3330
The Ethics of Post-Anarchism by Saul Newman
- http://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=3190

Veganism and Anarchism threads:

Contemporary Anarchism, Animal Liberation and the Implications of New Philosophy by Aragorn Eloff
- http://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3180
'Nailing Descartes to the wall': Animal Rights, Veganism and Punk Culture, by Will Boisseau and Jim Donaghey
- http://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3179
Disturbing Places of Inter-Species Violence That Are Hidden in Plain Sight
- http://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3173
Unofficial librarian of vegan and socialist movement media.
PhiloVegan Wiki: https://tinyurl.com/y7jc6kh6
Vegan Video Library: https://tinyurl.com/yb3udm8x
Ishkah YouTube: https://youtube.com/Ishkah
User avatar
AMP3083
Junior Member
Posts: 62
Joined: Thu May 11, 2017 2:43 pm
Diet: Meat-Eater

Re: Do you believe in self-ownership?

Post by AMP3083 »

Since we're sharing a bunch of links...

Larken Rose: My Thoughts On Voting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXoVPBGevXg

George Carlin, Larken Rose & James Corbett: Don't Complain If You Vote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fa8h468Elmc

Anarchy playlist (over 200 videos)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ygw7HqHbT24&list=PLVvR7-f81RSDkOBamiBDpcc5Lcf5XQJW2
User avatar
NonZeroSum
Master of the Forum
Posts: 1159
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2017 6:30 am
Diet: Vegan
Location: North Wales, UK

Re: Do you believe in self-ownership?

Post by NonZeroSum »

AMP3083 wrote: Mon Oct 09, 2017 1:47 pm
James Corbett: 9/11 - A Conspiracy Theory
AMP3083
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ov5g8_cGJVM

Why man?

Your advocacy for anarchism amounts to lets just change hearts on social media and hope for the best, it's called the abolitionist approach and it's the definition of deontological absolutism, not based on pragmatically going after results that will lead to a free society, as I said I welcome people with a capital theory of value not voting because they often align with the worst geo-political nightmares, but you have zero rational grounding for that decision.
AMP3083 wrote: Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:53 pm Plus, I don't think Zero has ever answered the thread question DIRECTLY nor has he outright admitted that we are all still part of the problem, as I tried to get him to do this on page 2. I've said the same thing about taxation to other vegans in the YT comments, and while they sounded sympathetic, none of them outright admitted that we are all still part of the problem. All I get is the runaround.
Yes I believe I own my own body, yes it's diminished by illegitimate authority, how you move away from that you organize.

Stirner and the Politics of the Ego (Saul Newman)
http://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=3416

We have ancap vegans who decry taxes:

You are NOT VEGAN if you PAY TAXES. By Jason Pizzino
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4e7HHg0BUM
Re: Stefan Molyneux (On Satanism and Socialism) by OGMizen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCdqCckRpZw

Worth a debunk video about not having that allied with veganism, advocating not paying taxes without talking about the moral responsibility to all pay in in some way, and the more money gov has to extract from poor people to go after wealthy tax dodgers, and makeup for shortfall on balancing aid budgets, etc.
Unofficial librarian of vegan and socialist movement media.
PhiloVegan Wiki: https://tinyurl.com/y7jc6kh6
Vegan Video Library: https://tinyurl.com/yb3udm8x
Ishkah YouTube: https://youtube.com/Ishkah
User avatar
AMP3083
Junior Member
Posts: 62
Joined: Thu May 11, 2017 2:43 pm
Diet: Meat-Eater

Re: Do you believe in self-ownership?

Post by AMP3083 »

NonZeroSum wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:20 pmWhy man?

Your advocacy for anarchism amounts to lets just change hearts on social media and hope for the best, it's called the abolitionist approach and it's the definition of deontological absolutism, not based on pragmatically going after results that will lead to a free society, as I said I welcome people with a capital theory of value not voting because they often align with the worst geo-political nightmares, but you have zero rational grounding for that decision.
Why? You're bringing up my recent upload and then deflecting the attention on to me? This sounds familiar. Why man? You haven't exactly said anything that will make me reconsider my position either, so welcome to the club. If you're looking for solutions, I ain't your guy.
Yes I believe I own my own body, yes it's diminished by illegitimate authority, how you move away from that you organize.
This is the answer you should've provided 3 pages ago.
We have ancap vegans who decry taxes:

You are NOT VEGAN if you PAY TAXES. By Jason Pizzino
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4e7HHg0BUM
Re: Stefan Molyneux (On Satanism and Socialism) by OGMizen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCdqCckRpZw
Awesome! Good for them (legitimate compliment).
User avatar
AMP3083
Junior Member
Posts: 62
Joined: Thu May 11, 2017 2:43 pm
Diet: Meat-Eater

Re: Do you believe in self-ownership?

Post by AMP3083 »

By the way, going back to what you said:
Larken Rose doesn't believe in evolution.
Mark Passio is a run of the mill conspiracy nut who promotes David Icke.
Mike Rasila fear mongers vaccines, encourages driving and doing electrics without passing any tests.

These aren't rational people, I can listen to them and understand the appeal of their ideology, but they're never going to make change happen or convince the masses.
I'm calling you out on that. You said you have FB, right? Here's Larken's FB: https://www.facebook.com/larken.rose.7?fref=nf

Talk to him yourself and tell him exactly what you said to me. I'm sure you're allowed to comment there as he has his critics stopping by to comment once in a while. Then, after chatting with him, make a blog and I'll check it out. This is your opportunity, don't let it go to waste. If you have to turn this down, then we're left seeing you here yelling these words at Larken from the bleachers.
Post Reply