Kim Jong-un's answer to Trump's threats

[Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz]

Kim Jong-un has responded to President Trump's threat to "totally destroy" the DPRK:

"The speech made by the U.S. president in his maiden address on the UN arena in the prevailing serious circumstances, in which the situation on the Korean peninsula has been rendered tense as never before and is inching closer to a touch-and-go state, is arousing worldwide concern.

Shaping the general idea of what he would say, I expected he would make stereo-typed, prepared remarks a little different from what he used to utter in his office on the spur of the moment as he had to speak on the world's biggest official diplomatic stage.

But, far from making remarks of any persuasive power that can be viewed to be helpful to defusing tension, he made unprecedented rude nonsense one has never heard from any of his predecessors.

A frightened dog barks louder.

I'd like to advise Trump to exercise prudence in selecting words and to be considerate of whom he speaks to when making a speech in front of the world.

The mentally deranged behavior of the U.S. president openly expressing on the UN arena the unethical will to "totally destroy" a sovereign state, beyond the boundary of threats of regime change or overturn of social system, makes even those with normal thinking faculty think about discretion and composure.

His remarks remind me of such words as "political layman" and "political heretic" which were in vogue in reference to Trump during his presidential election campaign.

After taking office Trump has rendered the world restless through threats and blackmail against all countries in the world. He is unfit to hold the prerogative of supreme command of a country, and he is surely a rogue and a gangster fond of playing with fire, rather than a politician.

His remarks which described the U.S. option through straightforward expression of his will have convinced me, rather than frightening or stopping me, that the path I chose is correct and that it is the one I have to follow to the last.

Now that Trump has denied the existence of and insulted me and my country in front of the eyes of the world and made the most ferocious declaration of a war in history that he would destroy the DPRK, we will consider with seriousness exercising of a corresponding, highest level of hard-line countermeasure in history.

Action is the best option in treating the dotard who, hard of hearing, is uttering only what he wants to say.

As a man representing the DPRK and on behalf of the dignity and honor of my state and people and on my own, I will make the man holding the prerogative of the supreme command in the U.S. pay dearly for his speech calling for totally destroying the DPRK.

This is not a rhetorical expression loved by Trump.

I am now thinking hard about what response he could have expected when he allowed such eccentric words to trip off his tongue.

Whatever Trump might have expected, he will face results beyond his expectation.

I will surely and definitely tame the mentally deranged U. S. dotard with fire."

What are your thoughts on this?

[Jebus]

My only thought is that ridiculous "rocket man" branding. Kim Jong Un is really easy to make fun of and he certainly could have come up with something better. Remember, Howard Wolowitz tried (and failed) really hard to get that nick name.

[Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz]

My only thought is that ridiculous "rocket man" branding. Kim Jong Un is really easy to make fun of and he certainly could have come up with something better. Remember, Howard Wolowitz tried (and failed) really hard to get that nick name.

Are you saying Trump ought to call him Fruit Loops?

Let's hope the President doesn't go on this forum - we don't want to give him any ideas!

[AMP3083]

Just another case of two insecure world leaders trying to prove whose dick is bigger.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMwXR-1oajE

[Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz]

Just another case of two insecure world leaders trying to prove whose dick is bigger.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMwXR-1oajE

More a case of the western imperialists trying to get Kim Jong-un to suck their dicks, and apparently he is a monster for not wanting to.

[Jamie in Chile]

North Korea's government is clearly an evil regime that has committed many atrocities.

I wonder is there any fundamental difference between allowing pro North Korea (current regime) propaganda on the forum vs say allowing pro-Hilter or pro-KKK propaganda. He may be a troll but even so it worries me that this nonsense mostly goes largely unchallenged. Something very offensive shouldn't be allowed to stand regardless of whether he is trolling.

I want to know what others on the forum think about this. It really isn't going to take you very long to come on zzzzz's pro North Korea threads and put a couple of lines of opinion.

[brimstoneSalad]

North Korea's government is clearly an evil regime that has committed many atrocities.

It's not all that clear what's going on in North Korea.

I wonder is there any fundamental difference between allowing pro North Korea (current regime) propaganda on the forum vs say allowing pro-Hilter or pro-KKK propaganda.

The issue is one of plausible deniability. There's quite a bit of propaganda in both directions. There's not really "another side" to Hitler or the KKK. We don't have or need anti-Hitler propaganda.

The worst thing N. Korea is doing has to do with the trade sanctions which are making its people poor.
From a consequentialist perspective this is terrible, from a deontological perspective (one I don't agree with) these are imposed by Western powers and the fact of their consequences don't really matter. I think this is how North Korea is justifying itself; by blaming others for its problems.

We have a lot of egos at stake here. An entire nation is being villainized and if we're honest the problems go both ways and the Western world should be mature enough to take responsibility so tensions can be eased: much of it comes down to N.Korea trying to save face after it was used as a pawn in a proxy war between the U.S. and Soviet Russia. You don't fix that by being tough on them, which is forcing more isolation.

There's a wounded national ego here, it would take very very little to resolve all of this.
They aren't jihadists who want to destroy the world; they're a basically secular country trying to cling to national pride in the face of opposition and profound poverty due to a economic system that doesn't work.

He may be a troll but even so it worries me that this nonsense mostly goes largely unchallenged. Something very offensive shouldn't be allowed to stand regardless of whether he is trolling.

Challenge him on the facts.
I think it would be more productive to look to solutions rather than blame, though, because attempts at blame and sanction are what's perpetuating this problem.

[Jamie in Chile]

It's not all that clear what's going on in North Korea.

The specific details of the evil and the extent of the evil may be in dispute but it is a bad and immoral government, this is clear. There are many, many reports coming out of North Korea from many, many refugees and others and many, many tales of all manner of abuses. Now granted, it's difficult to verify the truth of any of them individually, but it must be true that at some of them are true. And so when zzzzz posts that x a specific accusation about North Korea is false, maybe he is right. It doesn't matter. it is like accusing one of Harvey Weinstein's victims to be a liar, while ignoring 20 others that made similar claims. It is like questioning whether one specific jew died in the holocaust, and ignoring the other millions.
Read this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_North_Korea

"On March 21, 2013, the United Nations Human Rights Council established a commission to investigate what it called “systematic, widespread and grave violations of human rights” in North Korea. For almost a year, investigators gathered evidence and testimony from more than 80 witnesses, victims and experts in public hearings in Seoul, Tokyo, London and Washington, D.C. They conducted private interviews with more than 240 people.
The commission has published its report and what it discovered was shocking, even considering all we already know about North Korea. Investigators found: “extermination, murder, enslavement, torture, imprisonment, rape, forced abortions and other sexual violence, persecution on political, religious, racial and gender grounds, the forcible transfer of populations, the enforced disappearance of persons and the inhumane act of knowingly causing prolonged starvation.”
Source: https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2014/03/02/the_indispensible_guide_to_north_koreas_atrocities.html

One specific example.
"Kim Young Soon was reported for ‘gossiping’ about then North Korean dictator Kim Jong-il, three generations of her family were thrown into a brutal labour camp. Her elderly parents and four young children all died after being imprisoned with her under a system of ‘guilt by association’."
Source: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2561201/North-Korea-categorically-totally-rejects-U-N-human-rights-report-details-starved-prison-camp-mothers-forced-drown-newborn-children.html#ixzz4vQHKOxEZ


There is no good solution to Kim Jong-un that involves him still being alive and in power.What's needed is to remove him. Unless he would be replaced by someone just as bad in which case what's needed is a revolution. Negotiating with him is like negotiating with Hitler. They tried that too. One thing that is unknown, at least to me, is whether Kim Jong-un really has brainwashed his people into loving him, or whether they all hate him.

The comparison with Hitler is not hyperbole or just another instance of Godwin's law in action. It really is possible that the North Korean government is about as bad as the nazis (albiet on a smaller scale) or at least broadly comparable: there is no mass scale genocide. it is also considered possible that it is the worst regime in the world right now for extense of abuse and curtailment of liberty. These are not my opinions, alone. These are the kind of things that have been said in sober United Nations reports that have assessed the situation.

Not smashing them with economic sanctions would embolden other regimes around the world. I think the sanctions are right.

I don't condemn the people, but I do condemn its leaders and possibly its whole political system.

I would also say it's possible to condemn US or other Western goverments' responce to North Korea at the same time as condeming Kim Jong and his regime, it doesn't have to be about taking a side. I am not necessarily in support of North Korea's opponents, I am against North Korea's government.

The international community is mostly concerned about nuclear weapons, it ought to be more concerned I think about the humanitarian disaster that is North Korea.

[Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz]

First of all, I should like to say that my support for the DPRK is one based on the probability of it being a good country, rather than on definitive proof. There is no definitive proof either way, so we must use what little evidence we have. The only evidence we have is from people's personal views of what the country is like, and we have to measure up how reliable they are. These are all the possible options:

1. Jamie in Chile is right and the DPRK is a totalitarian dictatorship
2. I am right and the DPRK is a libertarian democracy
3. Neither of us is right and the DPRK is something else altogether

So, we must measure up all of the evidence for option #1, and the evidence against it. If the probability sways against it, one can reasonably assume that either option #2 or option #3 is correct.

And so when zzzzz posts that x a specific accusation about North Korea is false, maybe he is right. It doesn't matter. it is like accusing one of Harvey Weinstein's victims to be a liar, while ignoring 20 others that made similar claims. It is like questioning whether one specific jew died in the holocaust, and ignoring the other millions.

Now, the two north Korean refugees who I have pointed to in the past as having made claims that have been proven erroneous are Park Yeon-mi and Shin Dong-hyuk. If these were the only people who had made erroneous claims, then of course I wouldn't have very much to go on. However, they are not. I had only referred to them specifically as they are the most well-known refugees. There are more, such as Lee Soon-ok, a north Korean defector who offered testimony in 2004 to the U.S. House of Representatives detailing how the DPRK would torture Christians by drowning them in molten iron. It was later made apparent that she had never been a political prisoner of the DPRK, and Kwon Hyuk, who claimed that he was an intelligence officer in the DPRK embassy in Beijing who had witnessed human experiments. It was later made apparent that he had no access to this information.

And if that isn't enough, Felix Abt, a Swiss businessman who lived in the DPRK has claimed that 70% of DPRK defectors residing in south Korea are unemployed and have resorted to selling sensationalist stories in order to make a living. This is backed by Chun Hye Sung, a defector to south Korea who later returned to the DPRK and claimed that she had been pressured into fabricating stories detrimental to the DPRK.

Indeed, this is only a handful of those making claims about the DPRK, and it is of course not enough to claim that every negative statement about the DPRK is false, however let's take an examination of these claims:

- Some of them have been proven false
- Some of them have not been proved either way
- Some of them have been proved true, but I, nor any other supporter of the DPRK, have never denied (e.g. famine, floods, etc.)

If I wanted to see how many daisies were in a field, I would throw many quadrats into random areas within this field, and count the daisies within them. If I counted no daisies within these quadrats, and could not observe for myself any daisies within the field as far as I could see, then I would be perfectly justified in guessing based off of my observations that there were no daisies in this field.

Similarly, because out of all these atrocity stories, those which we have sampled have either been provably fabricated, or can't be proved either way, and because of the amount of evidence that shows many have a reason to sensationalize their stories and to lie about the truth, it is perfectly reasonable to suggest that the DPRK is in fact not what the media and the western powers have made it out to be.

Furthermore, atrocity propaganda has been deployed in many cases in the past without any evidence, the most notable example is the WW1-era propaganda that claimed Germans were killing nuns and stabbing babies with bayonets. Because atrocity propaganda without any evidence has been used so frequently, and has each time been recognized as false by historians, we can infer by analogy that similar tactics are being used against the DPRK.

And no, this is not at all similar to the holocaust. The gas chambers have already been uncovered and Zyklon B (far more than necessary to kill lice, as the neo-Nazis claim it was used for) has already been found within their walls. If every single holocaust survivor's claims had been repudiated, it still wouldn't matter because we already have all the evidence that we need to show that the holocaust happened. Furthermore, not a single holocaust survivor's claims have been shown to be false, apart from things that they misremembered (e.g. saying a particular door was on the right when in reality it was on the left), a stark difference between the sensationalist lies in the claims about the DPRK.

The claims about the DPRK have far more in common with Dr. Goebbels' own propaganda in Nazi Germany. The unprovable atrocity propaganda about how the DPRK concentration camps kill inmates' babies by feeding them to dogs, has much in common with the likewise unprovable atrocity propaganda about how the Jews would kill babies in ritual slaughter. The Nazis were very skilled in fabricating evidence to fit their claims, such as using the forged "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" to try and back up their claims about how the Jews were plotting world domination. The anti-DPRK media has bought into Hitler's "Big Lie" technique. Despite small lies (e.g. Kim Jong-un banning sarcasm) occasionally being picked up by the proletariat, they have never picked up on the big lie (i.e. Kim Jong-un being a totalitarian dictator) because it seems incomprehensible to them that such a big lie could be manufactured. This is exactly what Hitler advocated in Mein Kampf!

So, because option #1 is likely completely wrong, we must assume that the most probable truth about the DPRK is either option #2 or option #3. Occam's razor states that when two equally probable outcomes are posed, the simplest one is usually the correct one. Option #2 is clearly simpler than option #3. And that is why I support the DPRK.

There is no good solution to Kim Jong-un that involves him still being alive and in power.What's needed is to remove him. Unless he would be replaced by someone just as bad in which case what's needed is a revolution. Negotiating with him is like negotiating with Hitler. They tried that too. One thing that is unknown, at least to me, is whether Kim Jong-un really has brainwashed his people into loving him, or whether they all hate him.

Let's just throw all the evidence I have discussed out of the window for a second, and imagine that Kim Jong-un really is a totalitarian dictator. Would removing him from power really be the best solution? The thing is, he would indeed be replaced by somebody who is just as bad as him, if not worse. The lessons of history can show us this (e.g. the invasion of Iraq and death of Saddam Hussein leading to the rise of ISIS). Even in the case of a revolution, it wouldn't be likely to go down so well. There are many documented cases of revolutions going horribly wrong, especially when backed by the Americans. To claim Kim Jong-un can't be negotiated with is simply wrong. Similar things were said about the IRA, among other cases where diplomacy was the resolution. Furthermore, the DPRK have proposed to from their nuclear program if the U.S. ends their aggression.

Not smashing them with economic sanctions would embolden other regimes around the world. I think the sanctions are right.

Again, assuming the DPRK is a totalitarian dictatorship, in what way are the sanctions stopping other oppressive regimes around the world? Saudi-Arabia is currently on great terms with the U.S. and it doesn't look like that's about to end any time soon. This only proves that if the DPRK is indeed a totalitarian dictatorship, the U.S. could not give less of a damn about liberating its people and are only in it for their own gain. As you said, "I would also say it's possible to condemn US or other Western goverments' responce to North Korea at the same time as condeming Kim Jong and his regime, it doesn't have to be about taking a side. I am not necessarily in support of North Korea's opponents, I am against North Korea's government". It is because of this that you must understand that by supporting the Western government in their efforts to put in sanctions, you are not helping the north Korean people, you are only helping the Western governments. Indeed, the sanctions cut out 30% of the DPRK's GDP, and as opposed to being "targeted sanctions" that hit the government specifically, they are instead hitting north Korean citizens the hardest.


The sources for all of the information provided can be found with a quick Google search. I think that this is more reliable as you can get a multitude of different websites all detailing this information. However, if you struggle to find the source for a particular fact I have stated, I shall be happy to link you to some helpful websites.

[brimstoneSalad]

I'm going with #3, it's something in-between.

We can jump to judge North Korea, but the problem is that's not useful. I'd rather be solution minded than try to play a blame game here. Lives are at stake and it doesn't matter whose fault it was, lets just diffuse these tensions before the situation becomes much more dire.