Kim Jong-un's answer to Trump's threats

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Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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Re: Kim Jong-un's answer to Trump's threats

Post by Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz »

brimstoneSalad wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:49 pm I'm going with #3, it's something in-between.

We can jump to judge North Korea, but the problem is that's not useful. I'd rather be solution minded than try to play a blame game here. Lives are at stake and it doesn't matter whose fault it was, lets just diffuse these tensions before the situation becomes much more dire.
Agreed. I can't foresee a way of cooling the tensions though at this rate.
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Re: Kim Jong-un's answer to Trump's threats

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On the question of whether there are many atrocities, I think we're going to have to agree to disagree, but there are many, many reports of atrocities - hundreds - and I don't think North Korea's are liars. Read the wikipedia article I posted, the UN report or other investigations. Watch videos that show the witness speaking through tears under tremendous emotional strain. You would have to credit them as being good actors as well as liars. The UN reports and other investigations amount to hundreds of accounts. As investigations continue, it may turn out to be much worse than we think now. Your posts come across as pro North Korea's government to me, and I find that very concerning, and I don't think I can leave that to stand on the forum unchallenged.

I do agree that it's debatable whether removing North Korea's leader would be a good thing or not, I don't know enough to make a judgement. Removing Sadam Hussein in Iraq led to a power vacuum and a lot of violence, so was it really any better? On the other hand, Stalin's death led to reasonably big improvements in human rights and political and other freedoms compared with had he lived for longer. So, that can go either way.

Sanctions are debatable as well but I think in the long term sanctions damage the regime and therefore benefit the country. There is also a wider picture here that sanctioning North Korea may curtail opressions elswhere by setting an example. I also think that North Korea is so bad that just dealing with a North Korean company is arguably morally unacceptable. I would certainly not do it. That is extremely unfair on the individuals whose poverty you may make worse with such a decision, but unfortunately dealing economically with North Korea you are benefitting the rich elites that would take all the money anyway and probably wouldn't make much difference to the poor.
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Re: Kim Jong-un's answer to Trump's threats

Post by Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz »

On the question of whether there are many atrocities, I think we're going to have to agree to disagree, but there are many, many reports of atrocities - hundreds - and I don't think North Korea's are liars. Read the wikipedia article I posted, the UN report or other investigations. Watch videos that show the witness speaking through tears under tremendous emotional strain. You would have to credit them as being good actors as well as liars. The UN reports and other investigations amount to hundreds of accounts. As investigations continue, it may turn out to be much worse than we think now.
I have already read some of the Wikipedia article but when I get the chance I will read the rest of it.

Tears do not speak for themselves (see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmfVs3WaE9Y).

The evidence points to the fact that they are fabricating the stories. What stands out to me is the fact that 70% of them are unemployed and resorting to sensationalist stories in order to earn a living.
Your posts come across as pro North Korea's government to me, and I find that very concerning, and I don't think I can leave that to stand on the forum unchallenged.
Good. They're meant to be challenged. That's why I post them.
I do agree that it's debatable whether removing North Korea's leader would be a good thing or not, I don't know enough to make a judgement. Removing Sadam Hussein in Iraq led to a power vacuum and a lot of violence, so was it really any better? On the other hand, Stalin's death led to reasonably big improvements in human rights and political and other freedoms compared with had he lived for longer. So, that can go either way.
Stalin's death was likely of a natural cause rather than of an invasion such as the one that the Americans have talked about. There is speculation that he was poisoned but if that was the case it was not at all similar to the imperialists' plan of invading the DPRK, killing Kim Jong-un, and then leaving it in chaos.
Sanctions are debatable as well but I think in the long term sanctions damage the regime and therefore benefit the country. There is also a wider picture here that sanctioning North Korea may curtail opressions elswhere by setting an example. I also think that North Korea is so bad that just dealing with a North Korean company is arguably morally unacceptable. I would certainly not do it. That is extremely unfair on the individuals whose poverty you may make worse with such a decision, but unfortunately dealing economically with North Korea you are benefitting the rich elites that would take all the money anyway and probably wouldn't make much difference to the poor.
As I have said, the sanctions are not curtailing oppression in other countries. Saudi-Arabia still oppresses women and gays and the Muslim minority in Myanmar is still oppressed even though they can see the DPRK getting sanctions. The sanctions have so far only escalated tensions and diplomacy could very easily work as both the DPRK and China have suggested a solution where the DPRK ends its nuclear weapons program so long as the USA ends its military exercises on the border between north and south Korea.
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