Orange nightmare bans trans ppl from military

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EquALLity
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Orange nightmare bans trans ppl from military

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He tweeted that transgender people won't be allowed in the military because of "tremendous costs" and impact on "readiness".

If you don't believe in funding transgender surgery (gender reassignment surgery), then you can change that particular policy. So why tf didn't you if that's your concern?
Oooohhhhhhh, because it's not about that at all, it's because you're bigoted against trans people.

Meanwhile he avoided going to Vietnam when he was drafted bc of his foot problems that he can't remember basic facts about. K.
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Re: Orange nightmare bans trans ppl from military

Post by Red »

Are you referring to Trump when you say orange nightmare? That part genuinely confused me.
Anyways, I haven't seen the tweet, but he either had terrible wording, or maybe you're misinterpreting it. I think transpeople ARE allowed in the military, he's likely just saying that they shouldn't be expecting free transgender surgery. I personally don't see much of an issue with that.

Plus, I mean, I probably am not one to talk since I'm not up to speed with it, but Trump doesn't seem like the type of person to be bigoted against trans without exaggerating. Then again, I don't know.
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Re: Orange nightmare bans trans ppl from military

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RedAppleGP wrote: Thu Jul 27, 2017 8:31 pm Are you referring to Trump when you say orange nightmare? That part genuinely confused me.
Anyways, I haven't seen the tweet, but he either had terrible wording, or maybe you're misinterpreting it. I think transpeople ARE allowed in the military, he's likely just saying that they shouldn't be expecting free transgender surgery. I personally don't see much of an issue with that.

Plus, I mean, I probably am not one to talk since I'm not up to speed with it, but Trump doesn't seem like the type of person to be bigoted against trans without exaggerating. Then again, I don't know.
You haven't even read the tweet, sooo.....
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Re: Orange nightmare bans trans ppl from military

Post by Red »

Ok then, which tweet is it?
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Re: Orange nightmare bans trans ppl from military

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RedAppleGP wrote: Thu Jul 27, 2017 9:10 pmOk then, which tweet is it?
After consultation with my Generals and military experts, please be advised that the United States Government will not accept or allow Transgender individuals to serve in any capacity in the U.S. Military. Our military must be focused on decisive and overwhelming victory and cannot be burdened with the tremendous medical costs and disruption that transgender in the military would entail. Thank you
122k, 133k & 137k likes
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/890193981585444864

Responses:
In a written message to military leaders, the nation’s highest-ranking military officer clarified that no changes would be made to the military’s transgender policy until the Pentagon received official guidance.

“There will be no modifications to the current policy until the President’s direction has been received by the Secretary of Defense and the Secretary has issued implementation guidance,” Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Marine Gen. Joseph Dunford wrote in the memo first reported by Reuters.
Transgender Navy SEAL To Trump: 'Let's Meet Face To Face And You Tell Me I'm Not Worthy' http://bit.ly/2uCWws2
- https://twitter.com/TaskandPurpose/status/890538032088190976
- https://twitter.com/AC360/status/890376195652583425

http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/trans-soldier-shane-ortega-on-trumps-military-ban-w494407

Chelsea Manning: President Trump, Trans People in the Military Are Here to Stay
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/27/opinion/trump-transgender-military-chelsea-manning.html

____
[The military] was supposed to receive new transgender recruits [this summer.] Name changes and gender markers should already have been changed. They needed to have a letter from their doctors stating that their hormone levels and transition had been stable for 18 months. Those are higher standards than for regular service members, but it had already been written into policy. Officials had already agreed to that. Donald Trump and [Defense Secretary James] Mattis said, "No. We need to hold off for another six months."
As it stands there are thousands of transgender people in the US military, who have to hide their gender dysphoria for fear of getting kicked out, like don't ask don't tell, 1 transgender man serving member came out and managed to pass a mandated psychological evaluation for not having gender dysphoria, even though they sing in a gay choir, enter into body building contests as a man etc. And managed to stay on active duty but in women's barracks and unit.

There are obviously limits logistically on how fast a trans person can go into serving in a new unit, barracks or ever, if not physically capable, but other military's just set up systems to deal with it internally, and handle it much better than the orange nightmare is doing with total ignorance.
The military is one of the most binary environments that you will ever find and the trans people that I meet, are not asking for that binary to change necessarily. All they're asking is to do their job with the gender that they know themselves to be. So as an example there's a guy called Ben, who is serving in the UK's Navy, he's a very similar age to Landon, he had a similar level of job, his story is a wonderful contrast to what happened to Landon, Landon unfortunately was discharged, in contrast Ben came out to his chain of command, who then sat down with him, went through a needs assessment form, came up with a date on when all male pronouns would be used, when he would get his mail uniform, when he would go into male barracks.

I've met with the LGBT forum within the the UK's Navy and the commander there says; Why would we not allow our transgender people to serve, their careers have been invested in, to an equal level, they're just as capable of doing their jobs and when we allow diversity and inclusion within our workplace, which this is a workplace, then people perform better.
http://www.channel4.com/programmes/my-trans-story/on-demand/60897-007

It is just a massive joke the size of the US military budget and Trump using medical insurance costs as an excuse.

Anyways I watched a really great conversation on AlJazeera on this during Obamas administration where an anarchist trans lawyer was making the case that no one should be joining the military during the current wars of occupation and it's the wrong fight for the trans community, going back and forth over whether we need strong trans examples in the military and how to fight for Chelsea Manning etc.

The stream - Battle for trans equality in the military
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0ONkPNWjLU
Dean Spade wrote:I think this is not the right priority for the trans movement right now for a bunch of key reasons, one part of it is this is often framed as a key way for trans people to have economic opportunity, but there’s been extensive discussion in the US through many inclusion fights, about the ways in which a military job is not economic justice for a marginalised community, being in the United States military means being abandoned in terms of your healthcare, facing severe level of sexual violence, I’m sure you’ve followed the outrageous scandals in the last few years about the levels of sexual violence in the military, and the fact that even those who are supposed to enforce rules against sexual violence turn out to be engaged in sexual violence.

80% of veterans say they are not getting what they need from the military, in general the military is a very difficult job, an enormous percentage of homeless people in the united states are vets especially Black and Latino, so I’m concerned about the military service issue being framed as an answer to the severe vulnerability that trans people face and I’m also concerned because what the US military does is.. promote US imperialism, exploit people all around the world and use gender and sexual violence as part of that.

So I’m very concerned with the idea that when we engage in an inclusion campaign we frame the military as this great noble job protecting our country.. which is a job with terrible conditions for all but the most elite.. and it’s a job doing something that I think shouldn’t be done. So I think the trans justice movement should be tied to a global justice movement and it is tied to that, and the loudest demands in the movement have been about addressing the poverty and the criminalisation of trans people and the ways that immigration enforcement is used against trans people as trans people are dying in immigration prisons and US prisons all over, so we’re trying to imagine a different framework instead of this really narrow discussion that portrays the US military as a beneficial job and a great organisation.

An argument I hear a lot is that this will help trans people be seen as full citizens but I just have to ask if you look at the history of inclusion campaigns in the US military many of the populations that are over represented in the US military, the people that are subjected to the most dangerous jobs, especially Black and Latino populations in the US also face the worst violence at the hands of US police, face sever healthcare discrimination, job discrimination, getting access to military service does not turn out to change your status in the us. In fact being overrepresented in the military has a high correlation with being some of the most vulnerable people in the US so I think we really have to question that idea.

I was just raising my concern at the kind of portrayals of service members that are part of the work that Fionas doing (Trans Military), as much as I respect her, I think it ends up being, unintentionally, propaganda for the military that covers over the brutal reality… and other harmful and brutal military regimes like Israel..

This has been identified as ‘pink washing’ where you label your military as a site of freedom and liberation for a marginalized group, then it can white wash the reality of what that military is doing and the US military is under severe public pressure for its reputation…

I think diversity framework, while well intentioned, has at this point been demonstrated to be a tool in the arsenal of the US military, for example police in the US have been diversified, but police violence in the US has skyrocketed as we've seen in Ferguson, and protests around that, and the age in which we supposedly have racial equality we have a massive growth in the industrialized prison complex to be the largest in the world which is intensely targeted at Black and Latino people.

So the idea that if you diversify something, it suddenly becomes equal is a actually a current liberal myth, that (equality) is what‘s operating, and I don‘t think anyone has bad intentions who employs that (myth). But we have to think more critically about the way change actually happens, and what it means to further invest in institutions which are intensely harmful to our communities by saying we’ll be liberated by being part of serving them.
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Re: Orange nightmare bans trans ppl from military

Post by Red »

kk I see now.
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Re: Orange nightmare bans trans ppl from military

Post by Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz »

Weird! He seemed somewhat Pro-LGBT when he was running up against the other Republicans.
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Re: Orange nightmare bans trans ppl from military

Post by Jamie in Chile »

blatant discrimination, awful. honestly one of the worst things he's done yet and that's saying something.
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Re: Orange nightmare bans trans ppl from military

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Jamie in Chile wrote: Fri Jul 28, 2017 8:58 pm blatant discrimination, awful. honestly one of the worst things he's done yet and that's saying something.
Agreed
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