French Presidential Election

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Who would you vote for President of France?

Benoit Hamon
1
33%
Marine Le Pen
0
No votes
Emmanuel Macron
1
33%
Jean-Luc Melenchon
0
No votes
Francois Fillon
0
No votes
Other (please state which)
1
33%
 
Total votes: 3

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Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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French Presidential Election

Post by Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz »

I saw a video by Paul Joseph Watson on the French Presidential Election. He supports the candidate Marine Le Pen of Front Nationale. He went through each one of the other candidates and criticized them - Macron, Melenchon, Fillon, etc. but what I noticed is that he did not mention Benoit Hamon, the candidate who I personally would vote for if I lived in France. This could be either for 2 reasons:

1. Benoit Hamon has done nothing wrong, so Mr. Watson can't find anything to criticize him for.
2. Hamon is not relevant enough.

I sincerely hope it is not 2, because I believe that Hamon would be the right choice for France. He will legalize weed and assisted dying and he will give the workers full control of the means of production. However, what worries me is that the media gives such a platform to centrist Emmanuel Macron that the choice seems to be either between him or Le Pen. Personally, my prediction is that Le Pen will become president, however, I want Hamon so badly it burns. For those of you who are unaware of the candidates, here they are:

Jean-Luc Melenchon - Front de Gauche, Far-Left, Communist
Benoit Hamon - Socialist, Centre-Left, Social Democrat, similar to Jeremy Corbyn, Ed Miliband, Bernie Sanders, Korean Social Democratic Party
Emmanuel Macron - En Marche, Centre, Liberal, similar to Tim Farron, Justin Trudeau, Hillary Clinton
Francois Fillon - Republican, Right-wing, Conservative, similar to UK Tories, USA Establishment Republicans
Marine Le Pen - Front Nationale, Far-right, Populist, similar to UKIP, Donald Trump, Geert Wilders

VIVE LA FRANCE! VIVE HAMON!

Debout, les damnés de la terre
Debout, les forçats de la faim
La raison tonne en son cratère
C'est l'éruption de la fin
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Combien, de nos chairs se repaissent
Mais si les corbeaux, les vautours
Un de ces matins disparaissent
Le soleil brillera toujours.
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Re: French Presidential Election

Post by NonZeroSum »

Philippe Poutou - New Anti-Capitalist Party (NPA)

As I said before the ruling socialist party will get a kicking for maintaining an undesirable status quo, wanting to strip citizens rights, giving police powers to raid activist houses etc etc.

Hamon is great but stands no chance, the left needs votes to stay relevant, Jean-Luc Mélenchon is surging in the polls but is authoritarian communist which is incredibly undesirable, but Poitou was the star of the second TV debate and is libertarian socialist, so these 2 getting votes will at least prove it is not the fault of Hamon's policy positions that the socialists didn't win because Manuel Valls is even more unfavourable.
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Re: French Presidential Election

Post by Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz »

NonZeroSum wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2017 7:05 pm Philippe Poutou - New Anti-Capitalist Party (NPA)

As I said before the ruling socialist party will get a kicking for maintaining an undesirable status quo, wanting to strip citizens rights, giving police powers to raid activist houses etc etc.

Hamon is great but stands no chance, the left needs votes to stay relevant, Jean-Luc Mélenchon is surging in the polls but is authoritarian communist which is incredibly undesirable, but Poitou was the star of the second TV debate and is libertarian socialist, so these 2 getting votes will at least prove it is not the fault of Hamon's policy positions that the socialists didn't win because Manuel Valls is even more unfavourable.
Oh gee! I sincerely hope that the world is not so corrupt that Hamon has became irrelevant. Hamon must become president so that France has a future to believe in. I really do not think the media, because they are so biased, will pay attention to why Hamon lost and they will automatically tell people that he lost because he is too left-wing. This happened in the UK in 2015 when Ed Miliband lost, they blamed he was too left-wing, when a big part of why he lost had to do with Scotland, who voted SNP, considered to be more anti-austerity and more left-wing than the Labour Party in that election.
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Re: French Presidential Election

Post by miniboes »

As I said elsewhere, I like Macron. He's got his head in the right place on the sustainability front (reforming EU-ETS, pro-nuclear), and he's a skeptical pro-EU candidate.
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Re: French Presidential Election

Post by Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz »

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Re: French Presidential Election

Post by NonZeroSum »

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz wrote: Wed Apr 19, 2017 5:37 am Image
The Political Compass - French General Election 2017
- https://www.politicalcompass.org/france2017
Reporting on the election has often been characterised by muddled terminology. The Political Compass has long pointed out that left and right essentially describe economics. Macron, for example, is regularly reported as being economically ‘liberal’ and socially ‘left wing’. In reality, Macron is a classic libertarian in the US sense, with a socially liberal outlook and, crucially, an extreme right wing (ie neoliberal) economic agenda. This mix appeals to a significant section of younger voters who, being steadfastly pro-business, dislike most forms of state engagement in either the economy or society in general. He‘s certainly the closest of the candidates to Social Darwinism.

Le Pen is similarly misrepresented as ‘extreme right wing’. Her extemism is in her social attitudes, not her economics. Indeed France’s National Front has often been economically to the left of the pre-Hamon Socialist Party in its attachment to the public sector and opposition to globalisation and privatisation. The party, with its strong strain of nationalism, might well be described as a form of national socialism.

Fillon, unlike Macron, marries conservative social policies with neoliberal economics; but this most establishment of the candidates is dogged with an undignified judicial enquiry that undermines his moral authority.

Hamon’s attempts to protray himself as different from the market-friendly Hollande Socialist Party may not convince a sufficient number of its disappointed core supporters. Mélenchon’s unpredicted surge in support reflects his appeal as an anti-establishment candidate of the uncompromising left at a time when the political establishment — and neoliberalism — are widely disliked.

One of the important questions of the election is whether this split in the left will again serve the interests of the National Front. Through ego, a distrust of Hamon’s socialist commitments or fear of personal political damage if aligned with an ideologically promiscuous party — or perhaps all three — Mélenchon has refused Hamon’s appeal to create a unified left. So far.

In the event of apparent policy shifts, the position of candidates on our chart will correspondingly alter.
Interesting analysis, however I think they underestimate how authoritarian Melanchon would be saying he wants an alliance with Cuba and Venezuela, two dictatorships, though I like the idea of direct trading of resources for skills like Cuba has been doing with doctors for years.

Also how Left-Libertarian Hamon would be bringing in the universal wage and legalising weed.
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Re: French Presidential Election

Post by Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz »

NonZeroSum wrote: Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:13 am Also how Left-Libertarian Hamon would be bringing in the universal wage and legalising weed.
This is why we must have Hamon. Those voting for Macron, Le Pen, Fillon, Melenchon, etc. do not understand what they are doing to France. We must put aside everything we can for the next couple of weeks and campaign for Hamon, so that he can help France to become a fairer and more equal society. The establishment are pushing for the four other candidates. If any of them get in, it will be disastrous. We simply must have Hamon. If Hamon gets in, France will experience a great boost, there will be hope for the world, a France that works for all. They must have Hamon, a smart, compassionate man who will put the French people's interests first. If Hamon gets in, it will all become all right.
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Re: French Presidential Election

Post by NonZeroSum »

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz wrote: Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:36 am
NonZeroSum wrote: Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:13 am Also how Left-Libertarian Hamon would be bringing in the universal wage and legalising weed.
This is why we must have Hamon. Those voting for Macron, Le Pen, Fillon, Melenchon, etc. do not understand what they are doing to France. We must put aside everything we can for the next couple of weeks and campaign for Hamon, so that he can help France to become a fairer and more equal society. The establishment are pushing for the four other candidates. If any of them get in, it will be disastrous. We simply must have Hamon. If Hamon gets in, France will experience a great boost, there will be hope for the world, a France that works for all. They must have Hamon, a smart, compassionate man who will put the French people's interests first. If Hamon gets in, it will all become all right.
Unfortunately the best, most popular policies on their own often don't have traction under our representative democracy. I'm a political realist, with the Islamic-facsict attacks people will turn to their own brand of Christian-fascism a la Le Pen. Voting for the ruling socialist party just isn't going to be appealing when they saw no noticeable difference in their lives, only worse. Republicans are tied up in scandal and even worse establishment. It's between Macron, Le Pen and Melanchon. With so much propaganda/misinformation about globalist laissez-faire economics people will rush to Macron as the sensible candidate. (Not) Looking forward to the next banking crisis with Trumps chrony capitalism, Tories slashing corporation tax and Macron soon to be the French President.
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Re: French Presidential Election

Post by Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz »

NonZeroSum wrote: Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:33 am
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz wrote: Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:36 am
NonZeroSum wrote: Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:13 am Also how Left-Libertarian Hamon would be bringing in the universal wage and legalising weed.
This is why we must have Hamon. Those voting for Macron, Le Pen, Fillon, Melenchon, etc. do not understand what they are doing to France. We must put aside everything we can for the next couple of weeks and campaign for Hamon, so that he can help France to become a fairer and more equal society. The establishment are pushing for the four other candidates. If any of them get in, it will be disastrous. We simply must have Hamon. If Hamon gets in, France will experience a great boost, there will be hope for the world, a France that works for all. They must have Hamon, a smart, compassionate man who will put the French people's interests first. If Hamon gets in, it will all become all right.
Unfortunately the best, most popular policies on their own often don't have traction under our representative democracy. I'm a political realist, with the Islamic-facsict attacks people will turn to their own brand of Christian-fascism a la Le Pen. Voting for the ruling socialist party just isn't going to be appealing when they saw no noticeable difference in their lives, only worse. Republicans are tied up in scandal and even worse establishment. It's between Macron, Le Pen and Melanchon. With so much propaganda/misinformation about globalist laissez-faire economics people will rush to Macron as the sensible candidate. (Not) Looking forward to the next banking crisis with Trumps chrony capitalism, Tories slashing corporation tax and Macron soon to be the French President.
Hamon has extended an olive branch to Melenchon to build a broad socialist coalition, but Melenchon has REFUSED this. This shows me only one thing: Melenchon seeks to serve his own interests rather than the interests of the French people. If you are French, then at the very least, you must vote for Hamon in the first round and then Melenchon in the second round if Hamon doesn't get in. Hamon MUST get in. He is France's only hope. Also, Trump is not a crony capitalist, his leeching off of the labour of the working class is EXACTLY what Capitalism is about. This can only end when we workers seize the means of production, and voting in Hamon will set the fuse for the workers revolution.

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VOTE FOR BENOIT HAMON!
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Re: French Presidential Election

Post by NonZeroSum »

Hamon has extended an olive branch to Melenchon to build a broad socialist coalition, but Melenchon has REFUSED this. This shows me only one thing: Melenchon seeks to serve his own interests rather than the interests of the French people. If you are French, then at the very least, you must vote for Hamon in the first round and then Melenchon in the second round if Hamon doesn't get in. Hamon MUST get in. He is France's only hope. Also, Trump is not a crony capitalist, his leeching off of the labour of the working class is EXACTLY what Capitalism is about. This can only end when we workers seize the means of production, and voting in Hamon will set the fuse for the workers revolution
Again Hamon is the best candidate and I'd argue with people to agree that he should be the President, but you have to be strategic, if someone asked me who I supported I'd say Hamon, but until enough people agree that he should be President based on accurate polling or the race changing dramatically I'd vote Melenchon on the slim chance of getting to the second round, because as it stands Hamon doesn't and it would be a wasted vote, and better to vote Poutou if it's 99℅ likelihood of neither.

Melanchon is only slightly better than Macron because the latter would destroy the French civil service, union rights and traditional work holidays.
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