Thoughts on God, omnipotence and demanding worship
Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:56 pm
I recognize that God and religion are both pretty much dead horses at this point. The whole Religion VS Atheism debate has ran its course on the internet. As such, it was probably a wise move to re-brand this forum as "Philosophical Vegan" rather than "Vegan Atheist". Nevertheless, this is something I want to make a topic about.
I am currently reading a book called "The Spinoza Problem", which I am very much enjoying at the minute. This book centers on two stories - that of the philosopher Bento Spinoza, and that of the Nazi Alfred Rosenberg. The former is what I will be focusing on, and what I have learned so far of it.
Spinoza has ideas that are considered unorthodox by the Jewish community. He regularly skips the Sabbath, for instance. This, he justifies by claiming that God, as an omnipotent being, would not see any reason to take offence at humans not wishing to worship him. After all, this God has already got everything he needs to keep himself satisfied. He is, after all, an omnipotent being.
This has its basis in the writings of Epicurus, who held similar beliefs to Spinoza. Epicurus believed that there were many Gods, and that they did not concern their selves with human affairs as they had already reached a perfect state of ataraxia.
Theoretical physicist and socialist comrade Albert Einstein agreed: "I believe in Spinoza's God, who reveals Himself in the lawful harmony of the world, not in a God who concerns Himself with the fate and the doings of mankind."
I am an Atheist, however, if there was proof and evidence of the existence of God, I would have to logically assume that this God must be the God of Spinoza and Einstein. The alternative is the God who Richard Dawkins rightly called "arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully."
Indeed, the God worshiped by Christians and Jews is "jealous and proud of it". See Exodus 20:5 for reference: "I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me."
The same can be said for the Muslim God, Allah. Prophet Muhammad, founder of the Islam faith said that "There is none having a greater sense of Ghira (Jealousy) than Allah. And for that He has forbidden the doing of evil actions. There is none who likes to be praised more than Allah does."
But what deity would have any reason to care about these things? An all-powerful God must surely be in a perfect state of ataraxia! Nothing ought to matter to them other than whether other people can achieve this state of ataraxia (As indeed, a God ought to be omnibenevolent as well as omnipotent). Of course, an all-powerful God would surely already be able to give this to us, leading to the problem of evil and the Epicurean paradox (which may have originated from Epicurus but probably didn't) but that's another story.
And now, here is the cartoon that provoked this post:
This cartoon comes from the Christian cartoonist Adam Ford (adam4d.com). Well, since he (using the guy with a stubble as a mouthpiece) asked, here is how I see the conversation going for me.
God (to me): Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels!
Me: Okay, fine, but why?
God: Because I the LORD am a jealous God and you have done all sorts of things that have pained me. You denied my existence, you blasphemed against me, you did all which I deem unjust and unworthy for a human being to enter into my kingdom. Go to hell!
Me: What kind of a God are you that you expect me to worship you? You throw "sinners" into hellfire for the mere questioning of your existence, when surely you already have all that can be provided for you as an omnipotent being. How is the denial of your existence supposed to pain you? What motivation have you to give such "sinners" an eternity in hell? You are everything Dawkins called you and more! You are truly a pathetic excuse for a God!
God: Shut up! You damned! Go to the devil!
Me: Okay.
(I jump into Hell)
Me: Bim bim bim! There is so much pain! Bim bim bim! Please make the pain end!
God: Good! That's what you get for hurting my feelings.
I am currently reading a book called "The Spinoza Problem", which I am very much enjoying at the minute. This book centers on two stories - that of the philosopher Bento Spinoza, and that of the Nazi Alfred Rosenberg. The former is what I will be focusing on, and what I have learned so far of it.
Spinoza has ideas that are considered unorthodox by the Jewish community. He regularly skips the Sabbath, for instance. This, he justifies by claiming that God, as an omnipotent being, would not see any reason to take offence at humans not wishing to worship him. After all, this God has already got everything he needs to keep himself satisfied. He is, after all, an omnipotent being.
This has its basis in the writings of Epicurus, who held similar beliefs to Spinoza. Epicurus believed that there were many Gods, and that they did not concern their selves with human affairs as they had already reached a perfect state of ataraxia.
Theoretical physicist and socialist comrade Albert Einstein agreed: "I believe in Spinoza's God, who reveals Himself in the lawful harmony of the world, not in a God who concerns Himself with the fate and the doings of mankind."
I am an Atheist, however, if there was proof and evidence of the existence of God, I would have to logically assume that this God must be the God of Spinoza and Einstein. The alternative is the God who Richard Dawkins rightly called "arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully."
Indeed, the God worshiped by Christians and Jews is "jealous and proud of it". See Exodus 20:5 for reference: "I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me."
The same can be said for the Muslim God, Allah. Prophet Muhammad, founder of the Islam faith said that "There is none having a greater sense of Ghira (Jealousy) than Allah. And for that He has forbidden the doing of evil actions. There is none who likes to be praised more than Allah does."
But what deity would have any reason to care about these things? An all-powerful God must surely be in a perfect state of ataraxia! Nothing ought to matter to them other than whether other people can achieve this state of ataraxia (As indeed, a God ought to be omnibenevolent as well as omnipotent). Of course, an all-powerful God would surely already be able to give this to us, leading to the problem of evil and the Epicurean paradox (which may have originated from Epicurus but probably didn't) but that's another story.
And now, here is the cartoon that provoked this post:
This cartoon comes from the Christian cartoonist Adam Ford (adam4d.com). Well, since he (using the guy with a stubble as a mouthpiece) asked, here is how I see the conversation going for me.
God (to me): Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels!
Me: Okay, fine, but why?
God: Because I the LORD am a jealous God and you have done all sorts of things that have pained me. You denied my existence, you blasphemed against me, you did all which I deem unjust and unworthy for a human being to enter into my kingdom. Go to hell!
Me: What kind of a God are you that you expect me to worship you? You throw "sinners" into hellfire for the mere questioning of your existence, when surely you already have all that can be provided for you as an omnipotent being. How is the denial of your existence supposed to pain you? What motivation have you to give such "sinners" an eternity in hell? You are everything Dawkins called you and more! You are truly a pathetic excuse for a God!
God: Shut up! You damned! Go to the devil!
Me: Okay.
(I jump into Hell)
Me: Bim bim bim! There is so much pain! Bim bim bim! Please make the pain end!
God: Good! That's what you get for hurting my feelings.