Emotions and experiences

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DarlBundren
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Re: Emotions and experiences

Post by DarlBundren »

So it's interesting to try to understand why your friend is finding more meaning in net negative experiences, it could be because they are forced to participate in faux happy experiences through work and our modern superficial culture, and a materially negative experience becomes something tangible and real they can hold onto even if it is somewhat reactionary.
I don't think he would regard it as a net negative experience. If you asked him, he would probably admit it was difficult, but that it was worth it. I guess some people like to be on that emotional roller-coaster. Emotions are generally considered to be 'good' regardless of their cause.
Agreed so how can we better integrate our emotions to be clear headed and approach situations logically?
Trying to mitigate our cognitive biases and questioning our beliefs is a good starting point. That, and using what we know to maximize the chances of getting what we want. Easier said than done, I'm afraid :) You mention meditation. In a thread I started some days ago, I wondered if anyone practiced Vipassana over here. Nobody replied, so I guess the answer is a blunt "no". This is Harris talking about its alleged benefits:
The quality of mind cultivated in vipassana is generally referred to as “mindfulness” (the Pali word is sati), and there is a quickly growing literature on its psychological benefits. Mindfulness is simply a state of open, nonjudgmental, and nondiscursive attention to the contents of consciousness, whether pleasant or unpleasant. Cultivating this quality of mind has been shown to modulate pain, mitigate anxiety and depression, improve cognitive function, and even produce changes in gray matter density in regions of the brain related to learning and memory, emotional regulation, and self awareness.
I know there are some people who are fiercely critical of Vipassana though, especially because it focuses so much on the idea that we should completely get rid of our emotions. Some even claim it causes breakdowns and all sort of issues.

Epistemic rationality and meditation are usually individual activities. Frankly, I don't know how these practices could be put in place for the benefit of the community. Schools are not good at teaching critical thinking. In my country, for example, there's generally an historical approach to the teaching of subjects such as philosophy and psychology. Learning how that knowledge can be put into practice in everyday life, would be a welcome change.
Greenpeace actually set a broad legal precedent for 'lawful excuse' that could apply to the shopping trolley example.
I didn't know that.
but I would push if they were unwilling like in times of war, and hope public outrage would be directed at finding the person that tied them to the track, that would also be a demonstration of how logical the society is.
The generally accepted assumption is that, in fact, pushing the fat guy is the reasonable thing to do only if people are not aware of it or, maybe, as you said, in times of war. A society in which everyone could be pushed under a train at any moment would not be a society in which it is worth living. There are probably, more realistic scenarios in which causing some harm, or using someone as a means, has good consequences though. In those situations, it's important to know how stand against the Kantian principles.
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NonZeroSum
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Re: Emotions and experiences

Post by NonZeroSum »

Argh I just spent forever writing a reply then lost it because laptop scroller decided I wanted to go back to the previous page!

Please accept this further reading until I have cooled down from my loss and can rearticulate what I had to say:

Putting practices in place for the benefit of the community
- https://www.opendemocracy.net/naomi-millner/involving-others-from-toolkit-to-ethos-for-different-kind-of-democracy
How knowledge can be put into practice in everyday life
- http://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=2965
On collective rationality
- https://speculativenonbuddhism.com/2012/03/27/samsara-as-the-realm-of-ideology/
On meditation
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2qarNHFYuI&index=7&list=PL-H7e9alC7Wlwyq597betK0nb98wXTysB
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brimstoneSalad
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Re: Emotions and experiences

Post by brimstoneSalad »

NonZeroSum wrote: Tue Mar 14, 2017 7:40 pm Argh I just spent forever writing a reply then lost it because laptop scroller decided I wanted to go back to the previous page!
I know the feeling.

In most modern browsers, you can push the forward button, and it will remember what you have entered into the forum.
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brimstoneSalad
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Re: Emotions and experiences

Post by brimstoneSalad »

For example, I typed this, and now I'm going to push the back button...

It took me back to the thread, then I pushed the forward button to get back here and that stuff up there ^ was still there.

EDIT: Make sure you push the forward button, and not the reply button. Reply will take you to a new blank reply and your browser will lose your content.
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NonZeroSum
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Re: Emotions and experiences

Post by NonZeroSum »

brimstoneSalad wrote: Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:42 pm For example, I typed this, and now I'm going to push the back button...

It took me back to the thread, then I pushed the forward button to get back here and that stuff up there ^ was still there.

EDIT: Make sure you push the forward button, and not the reply button. Reply will take you to a new blank reply and your browser will lose your content.
That's really weird, I definitely tried it and it came up with the quote without my additions, but now I've tried it again and it does seem to work... don't know what happened then. Think I'll do long responses in word from now on though just to be safe.
DarlBundren wrote: Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:30 am
My response was about all the ways I try to incorporate critical thinking and meditation into my daily life, like why I enjoy cycle touring and skill sharing so much. I'm sorry no one responded to you about Vipassana but it's a bit of a non sequitur to take from that no one who reads the forum meditates, oh yea and Sam Harris's philosophy and scientism is a bit of a loaded issue in and of itself, so that's why I stayed clear of commenting personally. The questions raised by those people who's practice lead to mental breakdowns is a serious one, maybe you could write a bit more about why it interests you, and if you've had any previous experience with mindfulness, CBT or solo-endurance sports.

And my attempt in bringing up the obese man in the shopping trolley example who could sacrifice himself to save the others is we should be better at seeing where antagonisms exist like the people purposefully tied to the tracks, and it would be good if people could switch on that mindset in certain situations, I don't expect everyone to be able to do it, but like greenpeace setting a legal precedent, we should be trying to talk about what can be acted on above board, by directing our anger at the criminals who instigated the situation.

Oh yeah and I understand your friend wouldn't see it as a net-negative, that's why I said 'materially', because I assumed this whole conversation started because it struck you as odd that your friend was pursuing objectively negative experiences (doomed relationships) because they were finding meaning in those emotions they weren't otherwise able to find in day to day life.
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DarlBundren
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Re: Emotions and experiences

Post by DarlBundren »

I'm sorry no one responded to you about Vipassana but it's a bit of a non sequitur to take from that no one who reads the forum meditates
I only assumed no one practiced Vipassana. What form of meditation do you use?
maybe you could write a bit more about why it interests you, and if you've had any previous experience with mindfulness,
No, I haven't. I have no prior experience with mindfulness.There is not much to say, actually. I have noticed that a number of people I follow have at some point said good things about Vipassana. According to them, the benefits are manifold. I also know it is usually regarded as one of the most secular (less cultish) form of meditation around.
Oh yeah and I understand your friend wouldn't see it as a net-negative, that's why I said 'materially', because I assumed this whole conversation started because it struck you as odd that your friend was pursuing objectively negative experiences (doomed relationships) because they were finding meaning in those emotions they weren't otherwise able to find in day to day life.
Yes, that is correct. Although he probably likes to see his whole life as a succession of feelings. That relationship is just one of those phases. " 'Tis better to have loved and lost.." and so on.
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