Oprah 2020? What would that look like?

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EquALLity
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Re: Oprah 2020? What would that look like?

Post by EquALLity » Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:24 pm

Jebus wrote:Political experience is more important before the election than after. Her popularity and funding potential will make up for this lack in political experience. After the election (if elected) she would most likely have experienced politicians help her with the Washington inside stuff.
Her supposed popularity. Yes, she's popular as an entertainer. That doesn't mean she'd be popular as a political candidate, especially right after we just had a TV star who was extremely unpopular as a president. Additionally, we don't know what she would do. We don't know if she would pick people who are qualified, and even if she does, she will still have roles in many decisions that she doesn't have the experience for.

Even if she is popular enough as a political candidate to win the democratic primary, I worry about her prospects in the general election, because from what I have seen, republicans absolutely hate the idea of Oprah becoming president. And even if she is elected, the United States is suffering from a massive national unity problem due to the polarization of politics. The two sides have extremely negative feelings regarding each other, and another polarizing candidate will exacerbate that.
The Trump fiasco shows what happens when one puts a narcissist with the mental age of 13 in office.

I'm surprised that you would write that one case study "proves that this is problematic."
I concede that I could've been less strong in my language. No, just having a terrible president who was a TV star doesn't prove that all TV stars would be terrible presidents. However, I believe Trump's bad decisions are in part due to his lack of experience. For example, he put people in his administration who did not get along, which led to instability in the White House. He also trusted people who he shouldn't have, such as Steve Bannon, which led to the attempted Muslim ban. He made a lot of mistakes that can be explained well by lack of experience.
An awful example. Let's start listing some of the most important skills needed to be a great president.

Being a good communicator (this includes being a good diplomat and a good public speaker)
Knowing one's own weaknesses
Consulting and listening to experts
Having the ability to make decisions when some will suffer at the benefit of a greater number
Being a rational, critical thinker
Being unselfish
Being compassionate

These skills could come from a multitude of different professions.
I disagree. Yes, you can have personality traits that are necessary to be president even if you are not a politician, but you also need knowledge of the world and how politics work or bad things will happen, as demonstrated by Trump.
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Post by brimstoneSalad » Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:45 pm

From what I have seen Oprah is friendly to plant-based diets and is no fan of the animal agriculture industry. I don't know if she's vegan right now. I do know she has been one of the most important advocates for veganism.

https://www.peta.org/living/food/oprah-wants-go-vegan/

She may be following the Pegan thing now, since she's friends with Dr Oz. No idea. But whether reducetarian or vegan, she's pro-vegan.
Jebus wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:07 pm
An awful example. Let's start listing some of the most important skills needed to be a great president.
An important consideration for a non-politician is that he or she may dramatically change his or her policy ideas after getting into office like Trump seems to have.

He was advertising some GOOD ideas on healthcare. And he even talked about Single payer early on.
http://philosophicalvegan.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=2618&hilit=trump

And now what is he doing? Just trying to foil immigration and deport people, it seems.

The distinction here is that Trump was reoriented to follow the party line on important policy issues like healthcare. If Oprah runs and takes the party line with the Democrats, we wouldn't have the same issue of a polar shift from good to bad policy.

She supported Obama and more recently Hillary, and supports Booker. All pro-nuclear energy. It seems like if she consults politicians she likes and trusts that she'll come to reasonable positions on these, possibly even if she starts from less educated ones (something I could not say about Sanders, since he's already in politics and has come to that conclusion against the evidence on his own and not for lack of access to discussion).

I don't think her being a non-politician is a serious issue in the way it was for Trump, because of the possible spectrum of ideas she'll land on and the people around her will be less shitty.

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Post by NonZeroSum » Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:50 pm

I'd pretty much only approve of Oprah if she came out and said she's not qualified for the role, neither is Trump and since America elects it's leaders based on spectacle, the office should become a an almost 99% ceremonial role. That she'd spend almost all her time just trying to reform, give more power to and streamline the senate, overturn Citizens United, bring in The National Popular Vote Interstate Compact and instant run-off voting.
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Post by Jebus » Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:20 pm

EquALLity wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:24 pm
That doesn't mean she'd be popular as a political candidate
Actually it does. Before she decides to run, there would be enough internal polling to determine her popularity. She does not seem like the type of person who would waste her fans' money if she were not sure she had a good chance to win.

EquALLity wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:24 pm
especially right after we just had a TV star who was extremely unpopular as a president.
Trump's poor ratings will be an advantage to any candidate who can present herself as a polar opposite to Trump.
EquALLity wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:24 pm
she will still have roles in many decisions that she doesn't have the experience for.
What?? Why would she make any such decision without advice? Give me an example of any type of decision where an experienced politician would have an advantage.
EquALLity wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:24 pm
republicans absolutely hate the idea of Oprah becoming president.
Probably less female republicans than usual. Probably less black republicans than usual. Probably less Trump hating republicans than usual.
EquALLity wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:24 pm
you also need knowledge of the world and how politics work
Politics is not rocket science. A lot of it can be learned quite quickly and comes down to being a good diplomat and having good political advisers. Electing a life politician comes at a risk as many of them have big egos, have little real life experience, and are skilled at deception.
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Post by EquALLity » Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:24 pm

Jebus wrote:Actually it does. Before she decides to run, there would be enough internal polling to determine her popularity.
Her popularity before she is a political candidate.
She does not seem like the type of person who would waste her fans' money if she were not sure she had a good chance to win.
She may think she has a good chance at winning, but she cannot be "sure". Just you strongly believe something doesn't make it so.
Trump's poor ratings will be an advantage to any candidate who can present herself as a polar opposite to Trump.
My point is that the American public dislikes Trump, who is widely considered to be inexperienced. They may not want another inexperienced President right after.
Also, given Trump's approval ratings, he may not be the republican nominee. I don't think Oprah would be a good candidate against a more experienced republican skilled in debate and who knows policy.
What?? Why would she make any such decision without advice? Give me an example of any type of decision where an experienced politician would have an advantage.
I didn't say she would make it without advice, but she will be the one who ultimately makes the decision. Just because she listens to advice doesn't mean she will take all of it; she will use her own judgement as well, which is problematic due to her lack of experience.

Additionally, you don't know who will be her advisers. Because of her lack of experience, she may not choose the best advisers, as we have seen with Trump.
Probably less female republicans than usual. Probably less black republicans than usual. Probably less Trump hating republicans than usual.
There aren't a lot of black republicans, and I don't think black and female republicans will support Oprah just because she is black and female. If they were basing their political support off of identity, they would be democrats.
Politics is not rocket science. A lot of it can be learned quite quickly and comes down to being a good diplomat and having good political advisers.
I would like to hear how you know this.
Electing a life politician comes at a risk as many of them have big egos, have little real life experience, and are skilled at deception.
Celebrities don't have big egos, little real life experience, and skills in deception?
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Post by PsYcHo » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:08 pm

Jebus wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:20 pm
Electing a life politician comes at a risk as many of them have big egos, have little real life experience, and are skilled at deception.

The most accurate argument I have ever heard for term limits right here.
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Post by Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz » Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:28 am

What might probably happen is that a popular television program will imagine a future situation where Oprah becomes president, and then she won't run in 2020, but will run in 2036 and win, and everybody will be like "Oh my god! That television program predicted the future!".

I say this because this is exactly what happened when Trump flirted with the idea of running as a Reform Party candidate in 2000. The Simpsons imagined a future scenario where Trump became President, and everybody now thinks that The Simpsons predicted the future!
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Vote Red/Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz 2056!

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