The future of pets

[knowledge is power]

I am in general agreement with The Vegan Atheists stance on ending all kinds of animal servitude, but pets (specifically a future world where we have vegan pets like horses, pigs, goats, rabbits, rats, etc )Make me wonder.

Let's hypothesize that the world eventually goes vegan, and carnivorous pets eventually become so unpopular that they are no longer bred.
If we stop interacting with animals at all, such as pets, could that make us less empathetic toward them in the future?
I think many people turn vegan because of the interaction with pets and realizing that animals have emotions and intelligence and are worthy of respect. If we lose contact with all animals, might some of us go down the path of becoming indifferent?
Personal relationships with animals have a positive effect on humans, and maybe vice versa in many cases.
The only solution would maybe be if people could observe animals for educational/amusement purposes by safari (non hunting, non interactive.)
I don't know. Other solutions?

[garrethdsouza]

Idk what are the carnivorous pets , if you mean cats and dogs, they can be fed on a vegan diet with additional supplement requirements (taurine, vitamin d3, etc)

I feel pets are a bit of a luxury, not that I'm wholly against it. But each additional animal is a mouth to feed. And for each individual, a certain area of land must be deforested and maintained for food cultivation, so the more the individuals/pets, the less the wilderness. Plus having a pet means one has money to spare for food . one can't ethically ignore/do nothing about human hunger worldwide where people have little to eat/are starving while feeding cute pets

[miniboes]

I think pets can be beneficial in many ways, as long as they are not bred (or bought) unethically. I can see how that would be possible. We could establish rules, e.g. if you buy a mother, you buy her kids too. I'm not completely sure on this though. Then, pets could be used for problems like loneliness.

It seems to me that a dog, for instance, that is trained to detect drugs or something similar, often leads a very happy life. That may not be the reality, but its rather deontological to say 'No animal servitude. Ever.' TVA probably derives this stance from Gary Francione, whom he has distanced himself from since. I think it's rational to look for ways that we can have non-human animals in our lives without exploiting them.

Keep in mind, life in the wild often not a very good one; there's predators, disease, etc. Just like humans have significantly improved well-being due to the benefits of modern society, if animals could fit into our society they might live better lives too.

In the world of today, in any case, one should probably not buy a pet that is not from a shelter (do you buy pets from shelters? I have no idea how this works to be honest). In the future, I hope we do not have to abolish pets.

[knot]

I`m for pets since it just seems like win-win for both parties

For working animals I think it gets trickier. I dont know how much work is fair to expect in exchange for food and shelter

[Cirion Spellbinder]

I`m for pets since it just seems like win-win for both parties

For working animals I think it gets trickier. I dont know how much work is fair to expect in exchange for food and shelter

I concur. I find it hard to draw a clear line between symbiosis and exploitation. This doesn't mean I can't perceive something as either, I just have a hard time telling on whose side the guys near the border are.

[knowledge is power]

What I'm thinking of with pets is the breeding of them and irresponsible owners that let their pets breed and then you get feral cats/dogs because of that which cause havoc on the wildlife.
I suppose that it is also possible for people to be irresponsible with vegan pets too, feral rabbits, pigs, horses, and goats are a big problem in Australia, at least for the native vegetation. Feral cats and dogs destroy native animals here. Which is worse? I don't know.
I guess in a more vegan world these problems will be addressed anyway.

[Shadow Fox]

What do you mean by vegan pets? You mean herbivores? yeah, Several tens of thousands of years of Dogs being man's best friend, that is NEVER going to change. Neither is peoples love for cats. You cannot enforce your vegan lifestyle on other mother fucking animals. Animals eat other animals and that is nature and NO, that is NOT an argument from nature. If I have a pet lion ( for whatever messed up reason ), it would be incredibly stupid of me to try to feed it a vegan diet, even if I could supplement it with vitamins.

Not to mention that other animals are not Human beings and should not be held to anything remotely considered our moral standards or philosophies. People get house cats for two reasons only, the first reason is for a companion and the second reason is for pest control such as mice, rats, and small bugs like cockroaches.

You "Want" your outside dog to kill things like possums, raccoon's, and to vigilant watch over your propriety for dangerous intruders that you don't want near your house, such as mountain lions. My dog actually chased a young mountain lion away from my house once and I have never seen one in my back yard since. Also the possums don't come around anymore. If our carnivorous friends were completely vegan, they would lose their hunter/protector instinct over time and would no longer provide this most useful skill. It is for these reasons that we bred the first wolves who got near us and this relationship of master and protector that has allowed for dogs of today to exist. The same goes for house cats. We all love each other and it is this relationship that is cemented in our culture and both our DNA's that will never go away.

As for other kinds of pets, many people already keep herbivore pets. My Neighbors had a pet goat and he was the coolest goat ever. I do not see Vegan pets being viable for anything inside of towns or cities as almost all of them do not allow for such pets as they need far more space and grass and vegetation that cannot be provided.

The only foreseeable future for pets that I can see is just more of what we have today with maybe some space opened up for pets like chickens, ducks or other birds. But cows, horses and pigs will never become a house hold pet like with cats, dogs and birds/rats are today....well maybe pigs..but not cows and horses.

[knowledge is power]

What do you mean by vegan pets? You mean herbivores? yeah, Several tens of thousands of years of Dogs being man's best friend, that is NEVER going to change. Neither is peoples love for cats. You cannot enforce your vegan lifestyle on other mother fucking animals. Animals eat other animals and that is nature and NO, that is NOT an argument from nature. If I have a pet lion ( for whatever messed up reason ), it would be incredibly stupid of me to try to feed it a vegan diet, even if I could supplement it with vitamins.

Not to mention that other animals are not Human beings and should not be held to anything remotely considered our moral standards or philosophies. People get house cats for two reasons only, the first reason is for a companion and the second reason is for pest control such as mice, rats, and small bugs like cockroaches.

You "Want" your outside dog to kill things like possums, raccoon's, and to vigilant watch over your propriety for dangerous intruders that you don't want near your house, such as mountain lions. My dog actually chased a young mountain lion away from my house once and I have never seen one in my back yard since. Also the possums don't come around anymore. If our carnivorous friends were completely vegan, they would lose their hunter/protector instinct over time and would no longer provide this most useful skill. It is for these reasons that we bred the first wolves who got near us and this relationship of master and protector that has allowed for dogs of today to exist. The same goes for house cats. We all love each other and it is this relationship that is cemented in our culture and both our DNA's that will never go away.

As for other kinds of pets, many people already keep herbivore pets. My Neighbors had a pet goat and he was the coolest goat ever. I do not see Vegan pets being viable for anything inside of towns or cities as almost all of them do not allow for such pets as they need far more space and grass and vegetation that cannot be provided.

The only foreseeable future for pets that I can see is just more of what we have today with maybe some space opened up for pets like chickens, ducks or other birds. But cows, horses and pigs will never become a house hold pet like with cats, dogs and birds/rats are today....well maybe pigs..but not cows and horses.

Yes I mean herbivores. I would not force a vegan diet on a carnivorous animal. Don't jump the gun.
I accept that you have a dog for your personal protection from predators such as mountain lions, wolves, foxes etc. That is fine by me.
There are plenty or herbivorous animals which can be kept in houses with back yards, providing they have the space. I'm talking mini pigs and minigoats, rats, rabbits etc. Of course not everyone can have any kind of pet. That's true today as well.

Why would you want your dog to kill possums and raccoons? If they are dangerous to human safety then ok. Otherwise, the dog should not be so savage as to kill wildlife. There's a law against that kind of thing, at least In Australia. Is it legal to kill native animals in the US for reasons other than defence? (or starvation)

Let me be clear. This is just a hypothesis about what would happen if the world were to go mostly vegan. A 'what if' scenario only.

[EquALLity]

What do you mean by vegan pets? You mean herbivores? yeah, Several tens of thousands of years of Dogs being man's best friend, that is NEVER going to change. Neither is peoples love for cats. You cannot enforce your vegan lifestyle on other mother fucking animals. Animals eat other animals and that is nature and NO, that is NOT an argument from nature. If I have a pet lion ( for whatever messed up reason ), it would be incredibly stupid of me to try to feed it a vegan diet, even if I could supplement it with vitamins.

You're offended on behalf of other animals that they may be harmed by vegans feeding them vegan diets, but not only don't give a shit about animals on factory farms (assuming that's where you buy from), you actually fund their torture and pay for them to die? .....................

Yeah, that sounds just like an argument from nature. You literally said that it 'is nature' as a reason to justify your position.

Why would it be stupid to try to feed a lion a vegan diet if you could give that lion supplements to make up for missed nutrients?

Not to mention that other animals are not Human beings and should not be held to anything remotely considered our moral standards or philosophies.

Yeah, let's not stop shark attacks on humans. We wouldn't want to impose our moral beliefs on sharks, after all, that's immoral.

People get house cats for two reasons only, the first reason is for a companion and the second reason is for pest control such as mice, rats, and small bugs like cockroaches.

What is your point?

If our carnivorous friends were completely vegan, they would lose their hunter/protector instinct over time and would no longer provide this most useful skill.

How did you come to this conclusion, and what do you mean by over time?

It is for these reasons that we bred the first wolves who got near us and this relationship of master and protector that has allowed for dogs of today to exist. The same goes for house cats. We all love each other and it is this relationship that is cemented in our culture and both our DNA's that will never go away.

Why does this matter, and how do you know that it will never go away?

[miniboes]

Why would it be stupid to try to feed a lion a vegan diet if you could give that lion supplements to make up for missed nutrients?

Or better, feed it in-vitro meat. That might very well be an economic option in the future.